Yawn. Sigh.
Look. If you think you are the only fellow allowed an opinion then you are crazy, so I'll presume that you don't think that and you agree that others can have theirs. That includes me. You are for ever (and it has got boring) quoting people out of context and misquoting people. Who ever wrote "I want it my way and no other.". Nobody, right? You just made it up, right? I am right? You did just make that up?? Because at the moment I think *you* are the only person on the list who thinks that way. I hope to discover that I'm wrong and you don't. Now if I remember correctly (feel free to dig it up in the archives) my original quote was (from memory) close to "we like it that way and reading this thread will reveal who 'we' are". You always leave that last part off. What I was saying (yawn) a long time ago was that this business of modes can be argued both ways, there are two sides to it and ultimately it comes down to a matter of opinion. I had (and still have) a particular opinion, and reading through the thread it was clear that several others had the same opinion. Some may like it this way, some may like it that way. Me, I like it *this* way. OK? It's an opinion? Am I entitled to it? YES I AM. Part of my musical upbringing was flamenco guitar where there are essentially three modes and about 4 keys. The keys are E, A, D and C and the modes are major, minor and Phrygian (OK tarantas is played in F# phrygian and, with a capo on fret 2 that's G#Phr - that's why I said "about"). To describe a phrygian piece as either minor or major is a travesty. It's not just wrong, it's ludicrous. You hear classical composers who write "Spanish" pieces that go Am G7 F E and should stop there (EPhry) but the poor fellow is clearly in a panic and desperately rushes back to the thing he knows, and glues a minor ending on. E7 Am (phew that was a close one!) The result is like a Vaughan Williams "folk song". "Song" yes, "folk", no. So I grew up thinking modes are important. Then I came across Irish music in Dorian and it's obviously a sort of minor but it obviously has its own character. Then there are those pieces in G with all the Fs naturals. And I could go on. So MY OPINION which is derived from my growing up is that modes matter and I don't want to see them go away. I'd rather see things notated as tonic+mode or even tonic and a bunch of accidentals than as a collection of sharps and flats. It's just my opinion. But I'm entitled to it. That is the way I like it. That is my opinion. It is in fact just that, a matter of opinion. I've read John Chambers arguments, but I'm still not convinced. (By the way I am convinced about multiple endings - those will happen in Muse when I get around to it. The abc support will probably come in even later, but I'm not arguing about what's wanted). The history of Muse was that I got fed up with trying to use some other packages and decided to write my own. The urgent need was the music (mainly English) that we played in the Spike Island Band. A lot of things were more important than modes so they weren't the first thing I did, but when they did get on to the wish-list they quickly made it to the top. I appreciate that you don't like it that way. You've said so often. That's your opinion. I suspect that your opinion was influenced by writing a converter to Noteworthy where you didn't have any obvious place to put the mode. (Did you stick it in as an annotation [I hope] or did you throw it away). No matter. I recall suggesting you got on to the Noteworthy guys and ask them to put them in. Maybe they are not that flexible. Well if so that's their problem or your problem, but not mine. But no matter whatever the reason for your opinion you are entitled to it. But understand that I, too am entitled to mine. I am actually allowed to like things a particular way, even if you don't. And I for one have never written "I want it my way and no other." Laurie ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 6:58 PM Subject: [abcusers] Anarchy John Chambers wrote - >Well, actually, last evening at this time I was playing music at a >contra dance with some nice people. I'm delighted to hear it. Do all these nice people share the same self-centred "I want it my way and no other." that you seem to think is completely standard human behavior? How do you ever agree on what tune to play? >I think it was variants of the principle expressed recently here, >that key+mode is more useful information than just the signature. It's only useful if it's right. A quick look at a few minor or modal tunes on your Tune Finder will show how often it's wrong. I've asked this question before and it was ignored - Why is it better to have Eminor tunes notated as K:G than as K:^F? >Some musicians don't understand keys and modes, and >just want to be told what notes to play. And other musicians play >music that doesn't fit the classical mode scheme. Both of these types >seem to have found abc useful. But wouldn't they find it even more useful if they were able to notate their music accurately in a way they understood without all that mode stuff getting in the way? You could have mentioned musicians who do understand keys and modes and are perfectly capable of working them out from the notes without a (possibly inaccurate) label stuck on the front. And people who are only interested in the notation will just put in whatever is easiest; two sharps? that's K:D. >Free agreement of musicians? What planet did you just arrive from? One where the idea of actually agreeing with someone isn't an alien concept and where making compromises to arrive at a mutually beneficial result is considered normal practice. Come and visit sometime; you'll like it. >And how about posting some tunes from your planet? Bit busy on the new programme at the moment but have a look at http://members.aol.com/LewesArmsFolk/Lewesfav.html. You've got it on your tune Finder already. I'm afraid since I generated these tunes by converting from Noteworthy Composer with my abc2nwc programme, there is no tonic/mode information. I have had to treat all tunes as if they were major. I didn't want to do it that way, but the abc standard gives me no choice. Bryan Creer To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
