Dear Subrmanyam Namasthee. I admire your thoughts. Yes, if you are so self confident , go ahead. I shall not demotivate you. Aged almost fifty, maybe my thinking happens to be conservative. And in this particular incident I wanted to tell what I did based on my experience in organising programmes on prevention of frauds in banks. I have only shared my thoughts. One can take it or leave it. Niranjan
On 5/27/10, Subramani L <[email protected]> wrote: > Hai Niranjan: > > I know I am repeating myself but let me do that in order to clarify > things... We can't see. There is a certain degree of limitations about > it, but we have intelligence enough to identify between risk and > non-risk situations. You have got to believe this since some of us work > in places and take up responsibilities given to us believing our ability > to perform well; this is not possible if we don't have the basic > intelligence to decide between what is safe and what is danger? Alright, > sometimes things may go wrong. I may be mugged, pocketed or someone can > bash me up and take the money... This is the most common form of threat. > Pl don't try convincing me that a person who is fully aware of what > he/she is doing by asking the banker an ATM card is foolish enough to > lose his/her money. When you and others repeatedly side with the > bankers, what you say doesn't matter. What you imply by saying things > like that is that "we may be capable of earning the money, but we are > not capable of safeguarding it". This defeats the very purpose of you > and I doing a job for living. So pl don't say that, even as a token of > reconciliation to the bankers. Certain things in life are > non-negotiable. This obviously includes our self-esteem, self-respect > and our trust in ourselves. If you don't trust you, it will be harder to > convince others. This is not ego, it is the belief in yourself that you > will mostly take the right decisions for yourself. I don't understand > how come this is not becoming clear to many who have been siding with > the bankers? I say all these without meaning any disrespect to the > banking fraternity. I only request them not to act as the guardian of my > money, just be a good service provider. That is all. > > Subramani > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of niranjanraj > urs > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 3:51 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking > > Dear Friends, > Namasthee to all. I feel some of our friends are unneccesarily taking > tough positions on the banker. Frauds happen even to sighted persons > is a good argument, but the chances of frauds committed against blind > persons would be certainly higher. In our own interest it would be > better to take the debitcard/ATM card in the name of spouse or any > other dependable relative. For this to happen the account should be > opened / made as "either or survivour". > It is my humble suggestion that on practical considerations both the > branch manager as well as the blind customer has to be conservative in > their approach and dealings.These words I am writing based on my > experience of conducting a number of training programmes on preventing > frauds in banks as trainer and co-ordinator in my Institute. > YS > Dr.B.Niranjan Raj Urs > > On 5/26/10, Subramani L <[email protected]> wrote: >> There is one thing to play the devils advocate, but it is quite > another >> to imply that all blind persons are incapable of taking care of their >> finances. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Asudani, >> Rajesh >> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:03 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >> >> Mr. Bhavani >> Please substantiate your arguments with written documents. >> I am afraid now we are going overboard. >> As if ATM frauds never happen with sighted customers. >> And, please inform me of any case where due to such fraud, any banker >> has lost the job. >> Even if a fraud happens to a blind customer due to his dependence on >> another while operating, we can always cite RBI circular in court. >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> "Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create >> Him." >> >> --Arthur C. Clarke >> >> (Rajesh Asudani) >> >> Assistant General Manager, >> Reserve Bank of India >> Nagpur >> 09420397185 >> O: 0712 2806676 >> Res: 0712 2591349 >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of BHAWANI >> SHANKAR VERMA >> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >> >> yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind >> person, >> cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if >> that >> blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee >> who >> entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his >> details >> on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk > goes >> to >> that blind person? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "AMEEN" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM >> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >> >> >>> screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to > VI >>> persons. >>> for, he can operate >>> it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. >>> that is non of the business of the bank. >>> if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. >>> then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? >>> are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated > by >>> RBI? >>> Ameen.----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA" <[email protected]> >>> To: "B. R. Nautial" <[email protected]>; "access india" >>> <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>> >>> >>>> you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's > part >> is >>>> discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, >> again i >>>> am >>>> to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should >>>> require a >>>> check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she >> avail >>>> check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his >>>> account to continue this facility. some times we also make our >> blindness >>>> complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, >> i am >>>> giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will > also >>>> take >>>> him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the >> menus >>>> and >>>> commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, >> could >>>> anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a >>>> person >>>> should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of >>>> ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the >> same >>>> circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch >>>> manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my >> head >>>> office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: "I >> accept >>>> your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our >> branch >>>> does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city >> there >>>> is >>>> no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, >> your >>>> application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible >> ATM >>>> will >>>> be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind >>>> customer >>>> unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, >> further, >>>> this matter has >>>> been referred to our authorities." >>>> thanking you, >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "B. R. Nautial" <[email protected]> >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>>> >>>> >>>>> no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the >> parties >>>>> are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities >> are >>>>> quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of >>>>> various >>>>> banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to >> give >>>>> all >>>>> these facilities to the them only because they know, >>>>> in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be > questioned >>>>> before the court and may be punished for their negligence. >>>>> In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and > satisfied >>>>> with >>>>> your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they >> are >>>>> more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems > to >> any >>>>> of the blind person. More or less, they are not our enemy so >>>>> the issue should be raised before the higher authorities with the >> help >>>>> of various NGO's. >>>>> >>>>> With Regards >>>>> B. R. Nautial >>>>> Mobile: +919915073368 >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Kamal Verma" <[email protected]> >>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Sir, >>>>>> >>>>>> The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should >> have >>>>>> produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The >> problems >>>>>> might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not >> been >>>>>> discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers > availing >>>>>> ATM, >>>>>> cheque book and other facilities from PNB. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards. >>>>>> Kamal Verma >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Asudani, Rajesh" <[email protected]> >>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules >>>>>>> framed >>>>>>> by regulator? >>>>>>> If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank >> or >>>>>>> government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with >> them. >>>>>>> If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> will be no rule of law in this country. >>>>>>> Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there >> is no >>>>>>> rational behind this question. >>>>>>> And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or > loss. >>>>>>> Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed >> out >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. >>>>>>> So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to >> create >>>>>>> Him." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --Arthur C. Clarke >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (Rajesh Asudani) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Assistant General Manager, >>>>>>> Reserve Bank of India >>>>>>> Nagpur >>>>>>> 09420397185 >>>>>>> O: 0712 2806676 >>>>>>> Res: 0712 2591349 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Kamal >>>>>>> Verma >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM >>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed >>>>>>> rules >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to >> issue >>>>>>> ATM >>>>>>> card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the >> blind >>>>>>> customer >>>>>>> who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM >> card >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> Kamal Verma >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Mahesh Panicker" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> dear Mr. Verma. . >>>>>>>> surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I >>>>>>>> haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I >> had a >>>>>>>> real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd > contacted >> the >>>>>>>> higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to >>>>>>>> complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of >>>>>>>> India >>>>>>>> ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my > card >>>>>>>> after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with >> the >>>>>>>> PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, >> this >>>>>>>> happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the >>>>>>>> disabled on banking facility. >>>>>>>> and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being >> asked >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you >> heard >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> anything more obnoxious? >>>>>>>> banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record >> when >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so > we >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> to take the struggle against such horrible institutional > nonsense >> to >>>>>>>> all possible levels including the media. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hello all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this >> list. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>> availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit >>>>>>>>> card, >>>>>>>>> credit >>>>>>>>> card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind >>>>>>>>> community, >>>>>>>>> hence >>>>>>>>> if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher >>>>>>>>> authorities >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>>> Kamal Verma >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mahesh Panicker" >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination >> against >>>>>>>>> > the >>>>>>>>> > visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any >> easier, >>>>>>>>> > but >>>>>>>>> > ones you open an account, getting the common banking >> facilities >>>>>>>>> > like >>>>>>>>> > ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an >> account >>>>>>>>> > with >>>>>>>>> > the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to >> get >>>>>>>>> > my >>>>>>>>> > ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be >>>>>>>>> > done. >>>>>>>>> > the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, > and >>>>>>>>> > although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of >>>>>>>>> > conditions. >>>>>>>>> > most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I >>>>>>>>> > believe >>>>>>>>> > some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in > this >>>>>>>>> > regard, >>>>>>>>> > and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such >>>>>>>>> > initiatives. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > > blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation >> before >>>>>>>>> > > the >>>>>>>>> banking >>>>>>>>> > > division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. >>>>>>>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "rahul cherian" >>>>>>>>> > > <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> > > To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> > > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM >>>>>>>>> > > Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > > Folks, >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the >>>>>>>>> > > > issues >>>>>>>>> > > > that >>>>>>>>> > > persons >>>>>>>>> > > > with visual impairment face with banking in India, >> especially >>>>>>>>> > > > in >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> leading >>>>>>>>> > > > banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible >>>>>>>>> > > > solutions. >>>>>>>>> > > > This >>>>>>>>> > > note >>>>>>>>> > > > has been asked for by some senior people I know > personally >> in >>>>>>>>> > > > these >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> banks. >>>>>>>>> > > > If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let >> me >>>>>>>>> > > > know >>>>>>>>> > > > at >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> > > > earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note > which >> has >>>>>>>>> > > > been >>>>>>>>> > > prepared >>>>>>>>> > > > earlier do forward that to me. >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > Best regards, >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > Rahul Cherian >>>>>>>>> > > > Inclusive Planet >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > On 23 May 2010 12:39, Srinivasu Chakravarthula >>>>>>>>> > > <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > Hi Dinesh, >>>>>>>>> > > > > Can you provide us with little more details about your >>>>>>>>> > > > > problem >>>>>>>>> > > > > with >>>>>>>>> > > > > Yahoo! Messenger so as to help you better? >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > Regards, >>>>>>>>> > > > > Srinivasu >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > On 5/23/10, dinesh shukla <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> > > > > wrote: >>>>>>>>> > > > > > dear friends I am not able to chatte with the > help >> of >>>>>>>>> > > > > > Yahoo >>>>>>>>> > > > > massenger. >>>>>>>>> > > > > > please help me to do the same telling me the steps. >>>>>>>>> > > > > > Dinesh >>>>>>>>> > > Shukla. >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to > >>>>>>>>> > > [email protected] >>>>>>>>> > > > > > the subject unsubscribe. >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make > any >>>>>>>>> > > > > > other >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> changes, >>>>>>>>> > > > > please >>>>>>>>> > > > > > visit the list home page at >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> >> > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i >> n >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > -- >>>>>>>>> > > > > Sent from my mobile device >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > Best regards, >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > Srinivasu Chakravarthula >>>>>>>>> > > > > Mobile: +91 990 081 0881 >>>>>>>>> > > > > Website: http://www.srinivasu.org >>>>>>>>> > > > > Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/sriniworld/ >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to >>>>>>>>> > > [email protected] the subject >>>>>>>>> > > unsubscribe. >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any >> other >>>>>>>>> changes, >>>>>>>>> > > > > please visit the list home page at >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> >> > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i >> n >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > To unsubscribe send a message to >>>>>>>>> > > [email protected] with the subject >>>>>>>>> > > unsubscribe. >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any >> other >>>>>>>>> > > > changes, >>>>>>>>> > > please visit the list home page at >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> >> > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i >> n >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > To unsubscribe send a message to >>>>>>>>> > > [email protected] with the subject >>>>>>>>> > > unsubscribe. >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any > other >>>>>>>>> > > changes, >>>>>>>>> please >>>>>>>>> > > visit the list home page at >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> >> > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i >> n >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>>> > Mahesh S. 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