right sir, better one should opt a sighted person hired or volunteer. it is better option then guide dog. and will also generate employment.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Asudani, Rajesh" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [AI] guide dog post clarification


Yes, Rahul, you are right.
However, I can say there are a host of blind people successfully moving around on their own non-visually, by using various options including a stick, and nowadays, technology including GPS. However, personally, I prefer to take sighted help either voluntary or hired. I think there is nothing wrong in hiring or soliciting sighted assistance for mobility supplementing it with technology, if you can afford it, for it does not take a hundred accidents to snuff out the precious life or cause any additional disability or major injury etc. which nobody of us likes or appreciates.....



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:57 PM
To: Jean Parker; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AI] guide dog post clarification

Hello,

That was a great post.
I agree with most of the points you made.

I was thinking of getting a guide dog because I'm not very satisfied
with the mobility options that I presently have.
Presently, I take the help of a sighted guide who helps me to move around.
We have appointed a guy specially for this purpose.

I even know how to use a cane, but I don't use it very often.
For me, the biggest problem with being visually impaired is that I
can't move around as freely as other people can.
And I firmly believe that even the most successful blind people in
India face this problem.
We keep reading articles about blind people who have done great
things in their lives, but how often do you see visually impaired
people in hotels, restaurants or at other public places?
I, for one, have never seen or met a blind person at a public place.
If you go to an airport, most people working there will act like
they've never seen a blind person before.
This may not be true for all countries, but it is certainly true for India.

They say that there are millions of blind people in India.
Tell me, how many of those people lead normal social lives?
Just being able to use the Internet does not make you normal, does it?

People here keep talking about screen readers all the time, but
shouldn't we give some importance to these things as well?




On 07/09/2011, Jean Parker <[email protected]> wrote:
All:



I have been asked by several people, both off list and on, to clarify my
posting regarding the viability of guide dogs in India.  Please read my
entire post below, before commenting as this is not a simple question. It
is a long post but I don't post that often so I'll make up here for lost
time.



To have an enlightened discussion  about whether or not guide dogs as an
aide to independent mobility by blind people is a viable option in the
Indian context, some facts about guide dogs and guide dog training must be
understood. There are many misnomers perpetuated by popular media, about
what guide dogs for the blind can and can't do and how guide dogs and their blind handlers interact. Many people, both blind and sighted, believe that
a guide dog is responsible for taking a blind person to their destination
rather like a sighted companion. Stories abound of the heroic guide dog who saved its blind owner from some tragedy. In reality, a guide dog responds to commands given by its blind handler such as left, right, forward etc, as
part of a progressive set of directions from one place to another.  The
blind person must always know where he or she is going and must remain
oriented to the environment at all times.  At no time does a guide dog
assume responsibility for "taking" a blind person from one place to another. It is therefore manditory that the blind handler be trained in and practice
good mobility and orientation skills in order to use a dog effectively.
Using a dog does not substitute for mobility training, quite the opposite.
Anyone contemplating training with a guide dog must have above-average
mobility skills before any training can begin. Many people make the mistake
of believing that having a dog will make this requirement unnecessary.



At present, the cost of training a guide dog is about fifty thousand US
dollars, that is within the US economy and taking into account current labor costs etc. The suitability of a particular dog for guide work begins with the breeding process. Genetics, temperment and other profiling are factors in determining whether a dog is right for this work. Although donated dogs are occasionally trained for work as guides, the vast majority are bred at
the training schools and given to families to raise.  The job of
puppy-raising families is to acquaint the dog with typical environments it
will encounter throughout its working life.  The dog is socialized within
the family and local community, taken into public, and must demonstrate
certain qualities of temperment and behavior necessary for a guide dog.
During this time the pupppies are assessed to ensure they are developing the required skills and behaviors. When they are about eighteen months old they are taken to the training school where they begin learning how to become a guide. During this process they are constantly assessed as to whether they
should remain in the program.  A substantial number of dogs each year are
removed from the program due to one or another reason and they are given to
local families where they make excellent pets.  Some even become therapy
dogs or assume a service that is less stressful or demanding.  During the
training period the dog is also evaluated to determine what type of person
would be the best match for that dog.  Careful records are kept on all of
these aspects so that the best possible pairing can take place.



All of this explanation is to say that as one person correctly said in his posting to the list these are not pets. One does not go to a shop, pick out
a dog he likes and have it trained.



A person who is qualified to train guide dogs through a recognized school
must first complete a two year apprenticeship before applying to be a
trainer with that school.  They must understand both dogs and people and
they must understand how dogs can supplement the independent travel of blind
people.  It is not enough that someone has been a dog trainer of police
dogs, therapy dogs or service dogs such as what paralyzed people have. In fact, many of the attributes desirable in guide dogs are opposite of those
required in these other fields.  For example, a police dog is trained to
obey its owner and show aggression to a criminal or provide protection in
the case of security details. Aggression on the part of a guide dog on the other hand is almost always inappropriate and can land the blind owner in a lot of difficulty. But another aspect of guide work which is different than
any other work dogs do is known as "intelligent disobedience."  If you as
the blind handler tell your dog to go forward and the dog knows it isn't
safe, the dog is trained to disobey that command. In order to do this
successfully, a dog must have the right combination of initiative and
confidence to disobey its handler yet remain docile enough to be responsive
to commands.  To what degree the knowledge and skill a person has in
training other types of working dogs is transferable to guide work is beyond the scope of this post. But suffice it to say that competence in training
dogs as guides for blind people is not achieved by reading "procedures,"
academic tomes or other literature.  It is a specialized area of dog
training. The life of the blind handler will depend on this training being
successful.



An often ignored aspect of this question is the welfare of dogs who might be
trained as guides in very stressful environments.  India presents unique
circumstances that introduce hazzards for dogs. In my observation, Indian society is quite hostile to dogs on the whole. Many including myself, would say that subjecting a highly trained, sensative dog to the kind of meanness
found in India's streets is irresponsible.  The excessive crowding on
railway platforms is only one example where the human environment as it is
today could be perilous for a dog who is, afterall, closer to the ground
than we are and likely to be kicked, stepped on, and otherwise abused
without your knowledge or ability for recourse or to identify the
perpetrater. Daily or even occasional exposure to these conditions can make
an otherwise well-behaved dog traumatized and aggressive, and for good
reason. Vetri has correctly stated that even in the US there is sufficient rubbish in the street to interest a dog with a scavenging nature but it is nowhere near the amount or variety as we have here in India. Loose dogs are another reality that must be acknowledged. Dogs operate in packs and when a
strange dog enters their midst they respond with aggression and attack.



One of the most important functions of a guide dog is keeping its blind
handler safe in traffic. As you know, the traffic conditions here in India are some of the most dangerous and chaotic in the world. I don't honestly
know how or if a dog could be trained to work safely in the traffic
conditions we have here.  Only someone who has been trained to assess
traffic conditions in the context of guide dog work can say whether or not it is viable. When a blind person is walking on the street people interfere
by grabbing a person's arm or in some way attempting to assert their
control, to prevent this or that catastrophe, real or imagined. This sort of interference on the part of the public can be devastating for a guide dog and result in its losing confidence in its abilities as a guide. A dog who
is not confident is not safe.



The sheer lack of space in restaurants, on trains and buses and so forth in
countries like India is another factor that put dogs at risk for injury.

Many, many people in India are not only hostile towards dogs but are truly afraid of them. No amount of public education is going to change the mind
of someone who was attacked as a child or has a belief that dogs will
somehow contaminate their environment. The question must be considered of how this reality would impact one's relationship with potential or current
employers, perspective or current customers, etc.



As when anything new is introduced into a society, massive amounts of public
and private education must be done so the public, police and others
understand what that thing is, how it works and why it is there. Guide dogs first appeared in the US in 1929 and even today discrimination is rampant.
The advantage in places like North America is that there are municipal,
state and federal laws designed to protect the rights of guide dogs and
their blind handlers and for the most part, these laws are enforced.  But
this does not prevent discrimination from happening. I should know. During
my tenure as a guide dog handler in the US I had to file countless
complaints and one lawsuit because of discrimination.  Public education
campaigns are conducted by the guide dog schools and consumer organizations
continuously with no end in sight any time soon.  It is debatable as to
whether things are getting better or worse with regard to guide dog
discrimination.



If this is the state of affairs in a country with a presence of guide dogs
since 1929 and one where dogs are generally respected and integrated well
into society, how can there be any realistic expectation that any similar
law would be upheld by the courts of this country? We are all aware of how laws are enforced in this country. The biggest difference is that in Europe
or North America the public is likely to support you in a conflict
situation. In India, they would stand by and watch the show for their own amusement. No law will help you when someone throws a stone at your dog to see if they can make it drag you into traffic. Sorry folks, that is the way
it is.



The education and accountability campaigns to be undertaken if guide dogs
were introduced in India would be massive, expensive and ultimately
unproductive.  The first people to begin traveling with guide dogs would
enjoy no respite from interference and scrutiny. The slightest mistake or problem would be magnified out of all proportion by a media that thrives on
sensation and controversy.  You would spend all your time fending off
interference by both the well-intentioned as well as the malevolent.  The
stress of this on a person is one thing, but the stress on a dog is quite
another.



In addition to the costs of training a guide dog, there are ongoing expenses to consider. Guide dogs have strict dietary needs. They are not fed people food. If this is done, the next time you visit a restaurant with your dog I suspect you will have some explaining to do to the people at the table next
to yours.  A dog must be groomed every day and receive regular veternary
care.  Daily obedience routines must be maintained especially for young
dogs.



Govind Reddy is correct that comparing life for blind people in India with
that of other countries in this context is not helpful.  In response to
Rahul Bajaj's assertion that blind people in places like the US have better
lives than those in India, I believe the quality of one's life is largely
determined by internal factors and that although external environments can play a large role in one's quality of life the ultimate responsibility for
the quality of our lives is held by each one of us as individuals.  Anand
Sharma's statements about "uncivilized people" being cause for concern are
correct.  The bitter irony is, that the scenario he describes of someone
deliberately parking his car below your steps for you to trip over is
exactly the kind of situation guide dogs are meant to minimize.



I believe the question going forward is not whether or not guide dogs are a viable mobility option for blind people in India. This discussion leads us
to a bigger, much more important  question of how can we maximize the
options for independent mobility we have and develop new one's if the one's available now aren't good enough. What is missing in our current skills of
mobility and what can be done to enhance independent travel?



It is no accident that this discussion is taking place just prior to the
November meeting in Trivandrum where options for the future can be discussed
and debated in person.  Here are some things to consider.



To determine once and for all whether or not guide dogs are a viable option
for India, one or a combination of the blindness organizations should
undertake a study in which those with a high level of knowledge and hands-on experience with training guide dogs are brought to India and consulted about whether dogs could be used safely and effectively. I reiterate that when I say safely I mean for the dog as well as for the blind handler. If it can be done then the study should articulate under what circumstances and with
what modifications to current training it can be done.  Competent
consultants should come to India to give an opinion.  And, if the trainer
who has been mentioned wants to raise dogs for possible work as guides she should go abroad for proper training. If it can't be done then they should
articulate the reasons why it can't be done and put the matter to rest.



Several years ago Joyce Kane of the National Federation of the Blind of the United States visited India accompanied by her guide dog. I don't know much
about her visit but engaging with her about her experiences would be
informative, keeping in mind that she was a visitor here for a short time
and was in India as an official guest.  Her experiences will reflect this
fact.



My observation over the years is that proficiency of mobility and cane
travel among blind people is uneven.  Some people have mastered advanced
skills of orientation and mobility while others have not. Whether this is do to a lack of standardized training or other factors I don't know. Part of the problem is that the environment in which people learn their mobility
skills is a difficult one and the potential to be independently mobile is
hard to achieve.  Afterall, if you are trying to teach someone to analyze
traffic at a signal but no one bothers to stop at the signal or remain on
the correct side of the road the exercise of teaching traffic analysis is
pointless and proficiency can not be expected. Those of us who travel both
in India and Europe modify the independence strategies we use for a
continuum of environmental factors, at least I do. Others can comment as to
their own experiences.



I do think the time has come for this group to evaluate what exists for
mobility training and discuss what might be done to make things better. Is
it dogs?  Is it technology?  Is it improved training?  A combination of
these? Is it something else? I have noticed that echo-location training is on the Trivandrum agenda and while the practice seems a bit anti-social to
me it is certainly worth considering as one part of an overall mobility
strategy. Whatever the outcome, the biggest thing I have observed that is
missing is how to obtain and use personal power effectively.  There are
blind people in the world who have no mobility training or aides whatsoever
but assume the rights and responsibilities of self determination anyway.
There are also people who have all the advantages of mobility aides and
services and remain dependent.  So the difference is not just external.



Finally, I was asked by several people to comment about my own experience as a guide dog handler for over ten years in the US. I had a very successful
partnership with a wonderful black Labrador named Harvey.  We had many
memorable experiences together and he died of old age in 1996 after a grand and fulfilled life. So why didn't I get another dog? Even in the US people interfere, discriminate and behave ignorantly and I found it intolerable. I
would never subject a dog or other animal to the kind of hostility and
creulty found in India's streets simply for my own gain.  To promote some
notion of independence at the expense of another creature is inhumane and in
itself, a criminal act.



Madhu Singhal inquired about other countries in Asia where guide dogs are
used. To my knowledge, Japan, Taiwan and South Korea have successful guide dog programs. There are schools throughout western Europe, North America, Australia and South Africa as well. Acceptance of dogs as a legitimate part of society tends to take place in countries that have moved beyond survival
and become prosperous.  This kind of acceptance is necessary for a
successfull guide dog program.



The unfortunate irony is that countries such as India are exactly the place where the type of assistance provided by a guide dog is the most needed. If it was not for the human element and all the destructiveness it brings the
concept might be workable.  And, if you think I have more concern for the
dogs in this equasion than for the people, you are right.



As always, comments on or off the list are welcome.



Jean


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