friends good evening: please read this wich i got from another list
k. srinivas.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Rijul Kochhar 
To: Meenakshi Balasubramaniam 
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: Question


Hello all, 


I think the draft suffers from a number of lacunae that merit it's pause at 
this stage. These concern aspects of legal capacity, questions of 
identification of posts, non obstante clauses regarding education institutions, 
access in govt. establishments as opposed to ALL public spaces run by govt. or 
privately, recognition of sign language, etc. Amba has dealt with these in her 
"comments" and we should all read them in order to understand the phenomenal 
paucities in the bill, ad hoc amendments notwithstanding. 


Although inclusion of other disabilities within the ambit of the law is vital, 
we must be clear that this inclusion is not mere lip-service; that there are no 
other clauses in the bill that will take away with another hand what the law 
giveth with one hand. To my mind, there is one such clause major clause amongst 
others, a clause that underwrites and illustrates the bad-faith that is at the 
heart of the legislation (and the inglorious history of its genesis). This 
clause is section 3(3), and it states:


 (3) No person with disability shall be discriminated on the ground of 
disability, unless it is shown that the impugned act or omission is a 
proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim


We must all seriously contemplate the consequences of this clause. What stops 
an agency or establishment from perpetrating discrimination against somebody 
with autism, for example, or blindness, or thalassemia, for "achieving a 
legitimate aim", however feeble or puerile those aims may be? Legitimate aim 
can be another means for perpetuating discrimination, and this time it stands 
with the threat of affecting all varieties of differently disabled persons; 
this is the legal institutionalization of discrimination!


We should be careful about being seduced by increase in quotas to 5% (when even 
the existent 3% quotas are not filled, out of omission or commission of 
discriminatory practices and attitudes at the level of implementation). Nor 
must we allow ourselves to be seduced by the promise of enlarged categories of 
disabilities receiving recognition on paper--when that recognition is 
effectively rendered null and void by other problematic aspects of the bill. 
Section 3 (3) is one such troubling aspect; there are others too, pertaining to 
guardianship, legal capacity, the reproductive rights of women, rights of 
parents to bring up children, rights of disabled children to families, the 
identification of posts (in contravention of the recent SC judgement opening up 
ALL places of work, something that all of us cheered not to long ago), etc. 
This list of problems, problems that threaten already secured rights through 
the courts, is indeed a long one, and needs time to be studied and ironed-out. 
Ove
 rnight declarations and celebrations of amendments make not a law, a law that 
will probably remain on the books for a few decades, and a law that will affect 
millions of citizens, not all of who are legally conversant, but all of who 
hope and dream with the understanding (faulty, i might add), that this is still 
their promised, cherished bill from 2011. The 2014 draft, sadly is not the 2011 
draft, notwithstanding what millions of people think, and its passage will be a 
betrayal most colossal, and it will be unforgivable.



Do we want to sign away in the same bill what we think has been granted to us? 


And lastly, if some amongst us claim (wrongly, i think), that disability is a 
non-political issue--which it is not, for it deals with fundamental questions 
about life, the body, the state, resources, autonomy and dignity, and equal 
treatment before the law--then why is it that we fear that the next 
party-political dispensation will lack the ability to pass this or an 
alternative legislation? 


I think we must wait, ponder, regroup, and demand passage of a fresh bill that 
is closer to the 2011 avtaar than to a mangled version of 2014. And we have the 
UNCRPD to thank, for a new law must be passed according to the convention's 
requirements, to which we have signed up. We must decide if what we want is 
seductive but ultimately illusory, or whether we need a legislation that arms 
us with the legal resources necessary for securing the rights of a few 
generations of disabled lives. For the law is only a law; the real battle will 
come with post-facto rules, which we must be very careful about, and those 
rules will be effective only if we have a legislation that does not allow 
discriminatory interpretations. What we need is not an ad hoc law, for we 
already have that from 1995; we need now a legislation that has other 
aims--recognition of more disabilities is certainly one such worthy aim, but we 
must be careful that this recognition is not immediately rendered ineffective 
by other
  provisions of the bill. Section 3(3) is one such provision set deep in the 
heart of the bill, and it will be thorn in the years to come. What we need is 
more time for deliberation, to guard against overt and covert discrimination in 
the effecting of the law. Only then, and by those means, can we be fair to the 
largest number of the disabled in this country. Holding forth illusory promises 
while approving a wishy-washy legislation may calm our collective consciences, 
but this kind of legislation will only go on to wound the disabled, and 
individually, as they confront the law at various stages in their lives. 


Best,
Rijul



On 14 February 2014 11:51, Meenakshi Balasubramaniam 
<[email protected]> wrote:

  Dear Ms. Vibha,


  Greetings!


  This is the same question we are also asking. How long should people with 
disabilities wait for the Government of India to acknowledge that they are 
people with disabilities and that their rights are respected, protected and 
promoted? We should all take responsibility to push the Government for a better 
Law in lines with UNCRPD. We cannot just be happy with a list of 19 conditions 
in the bill even after 4 years of ground breaking work collectively or even if 
it has been the hard work of only very few people. 


  Based on the primary census data announced last December, at the National 
level, the data captured under the category "Any Other" constitute 20% of the 
population of persons with disabilities. This is next only to people with 
difficulty in movement and people with visual impairment. At the State Level, 
for example in Tamil Nadu, we find the number to be as high as 20%, which is 
next only to people with locomotor impairment.


  Given this background, no body knows the impairments that are covered under 
this category. "The condition for marking the category "Any other" was that " 
If  a person could not identify themselves with the rest of the categories 
mentioned in the question". 


  None of us, even the Government / committee has not done enough research to 
get at least this data, while listing impairments. By this list we leave  a 
large number of people with disabilities, MPS, LSD, interactable epilepsy etc.. 
just to site a few (limited to my knowledge), out of the purview of this law. 
My friend who is a psychotherapist shared the ICF classifies atleast 3000 
conditions, and all of them should be a part of this law. How do we challenge? 
Neither the people in the movement nor the Government, through its various 
specialized bodies, have done any research in this area. This leaves all of us 
with question Why should some be more equal to others?


  When the Constitution of India is silent with respect to persons with 
disabilities, this bill is envisaged to be our Constitution. This may take time 
/ or may not, but this cannot be discriminatory, divisive and regressive even 
for its own specific group.


  These are my views. 


  Thanks & Regards
  Meenakshi.B



  On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Vibha Krishnamurthy 
<[email protected]> wrote:

    Dear All 
    There have been many threads to this conversation ( as there should be in 
an issue as important as this one) but I cannot see the answer to a very key 
question. If this law, flawed as it is, goes back to the drawing board how long 
will it take to table a new one? Is it worth accepting the ' bird in hand' for 
the sake of those who are excluded from the 1995 Law, but included in this one 
in the interim?
     Of course we cannot stop lobbying for the changes that need to be made. I 
do not think there is ANY debate over the fact that this version is far from 
perfect for multiple reasons, but the question of how much longer  some 
disabilities will remain left out needs to be answered. 
    There are many experienced people  on this list who have been advocates and 
influenced policy and I look to you for your thoughts 
    best 
    Vibha


    Vibha Krishnamurthy MD
    Medical Director 
    Ummeed Child Development Center
    Ground Floor, Mantri Pride 
    1-B, 1/62 N.M. Joshi Marg
    Lower Parel
    Mumbai 400 011
    Email - [email protected]
    www.ummeed.org




    On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:39 AM, Pavan Muntha <[email protected]> 
wrote:

      Hello everyone,

      I had some concerns with regard to the Rights of the Deaf under the
      Bill which have been clarified by the former Director, Ali Yavar Jung
      National Institute for the Hearing Handicapped (AYJNIHH). I am posting
      it for reference of all. My concerns are the following where I need
      clarification from the experienced leaders of the movement who believe
      in the cross disability perspective:

      a. The former Directors observations reflect the dereliction of faith
      in MSJE which is responsible for proposing such amendments without
      caring for the issues of users of sign language and the deaf culture

      b. Can we now believe that the MSJE is democratic/inclusive in nature
      in response to the recommendations made by  the Sector that is asking
      for fair hearing?

      Pavan.

      ---------- Forwarded message ----------
      From: rangasayee2002 <[email protected]>
      Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 16:57:42 +0530
      Subject: Reply to With regard to the Deaf...see comments after
      respective paragraph
      To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>


      > The question is whether or not the Rights of Persons with Disabilities 
Bill
      > makes a difference to persons with disabilities who are deaf, and 
hearing
      > impaired.
      >
      > The *United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with
      > Disabilities *creates
      > specific recognitions and rights for persons from the dead community. 
Sign
      > Language is recognized as a language in itself - not as a substitute to
      > communication, or as a substitute to conventional language. *"Language" 
is
      > defined to include spoken and signed languages and other forms of** non
      > spoken languages.*  In addition, under Article 30, *persons with
      > disabilities are entitled, on an equal basis with others, to recognition
      > and support of their specific cultural and linguistic identity, 
**including
      > sign languages and deaf culture.*
      >
      > The *Constitution of India* recognizes eighteen languages as "scheduled
      > languages"
      > (listed in Schedule VIII, Articles 343-51) while those languages not
      > included in the
      > scheduled eighteen are listed as "minority languages". The Constitution 
does
      > not provide a clear criterion for defining minority languages, neither 
is
      > "language" defined. Article 29 of the Indian Constitution allows for any
      > section of the citizens residing in the territory of India or any part
      > thereof having a distinct language, script or culture of its own to have
      > the right to conserve the same.
      >
      > Since even the General Clauses Act does not define what  language is, 
it is
      > of utmost importance to the deaf community for this Bill to have a
      > definition of language which must include signed languages. There must 
also
      > be recognition of deaf culture, which has a long history in India, and
      > therefore scope for its promotion and preservation.
      COMMENTS :-THE DEFINITION OF SIGN LANGUAGE SHOULD FIND PLACE.SIGNED
      LANGUAGE AND SIGN LANGUAGE ARE TWO DIFFERENT LANGUAGES.THE SIGNED
      LANGUAGE FOLLOWS THE GRAMMAR OF THE SPOKEN LANGUAGE WHILE THE SIGN
      LANGUAGE HAS ITS OWN GRAMMAR.
      >
      > The Rights of Persons with Disabilities Bill omits the definition of
      > language which exists under the UNCRPD. Even with its definition of
      > Communication, the Bill fails to recognize sign language as a means of
      > communication. The definition uses the word "signs", which is 
misleading,
      > especially since it is used just before "large print". The inclusion of
      > sign language is therefore in doubt.
      COMMENTS- Agree with the apprehension.
      >
      > One may argue that the Bill being silent about the status of sign 
language
      > could lend credence to the possibility that it is not excluded. However 
-
      > Section 16, which deals with the appropriate government's duties with
      > regard to inclusive education, obliges appropriate governments to:
      > "*promote the use of appropriate augmentative and alternative modes
      > including* means and formats of communication, Braille and *sign 
language
      > to supplement the use of one's own speech to fulfill the daily
      > communication needs of persons with speech, communication or language
      > disabilities and enables them to participate and contribute to their
      > community and society*"
      >
      > Thus, the Bill, quite wrongly, identifies sign language as an Alternate 
and
      > Augmentative Communication method This Section could also be read as
      > limiting Sign Language to a supplement to the use of one's own speech. 
Both
      > of these statements clearly indicate that Sign Language is not 
recognized
      > as a language in the true sense of the term under the Bill, and 
therefore
      > by excluding the definition of language and by writing in such a 
provision,
      > the Bill clearly departs from the position of the UNCRPD that Sign 
Language
      > is to be recognized as a language and treated so.
      Comments:- The AAC and sign language are two different languages used
      by different groups of end users.Therefore,suitable accommodation is
      required.
      >
      > With regard to culture, the Bill has an elaborate Section 28 which deals
      > with culture and recreation. The focus of the Bill is to include persons
      > with disabilities into mainstream culture by making mainstream culture
      > accessible to them. However, there is no provision to recognize deaf
      > culture, as is provided for under the UNCRPD. Thus, there is complete
      > disregard for the Deaf community.
      Comments:- Studying the Deaf culture and facilitating its growth  are
      priority activities in ensuring the rights of the members of the Deaf
      community.
      >
      > The Bill also threatens to change the position under the 1995 Act with
      > regard to employment. Under the 1995 Act as well, the hearing impaired 
were
      > being given 1% reservation. Under the new Bill, the protection of this
      > category is threatened by Section 33 (2) which says that where if the
      > nature of vacancies in an establishment is such that a given category of
      > person cannot be employed, the vacancies may be interchanged among the 
five
      > categories with the prior approval of the appropriate Government. Since 
the
      > appropriate Government is obliged only to provide "appropriate 
environment"
      > and not "reasonable accommodation" under Section 19 (2) of the Bill, and
      > since discrimination on the basis of disability is permitted under 
Section
      > 19 (1), as well as identification of jobs for persons with disabilities
      > under Section 32, the employment provisions seem rife for marginalizing 
the
      > Deaf in particular.
      Comments:- EQUALITY BEFORE LAW IS THE PREMISE TO BE ADHERED TO.
      >
      > Besides this also, the new Bill creates a new set of fetters for PWDs 
under
      > it which is very disturbing.
      >
      >
      > As a child with more than 40% disability, you can be excluded from the
      > protection of the Right to Education Act, as amended in 2012, and your
      > right to inclusive education be left to the discretion of the 
Government,
      > as you can be sent to a special school "if necessary" (Section 30). As a
      > woman, your pregnancy can be terminated against your wishes if a 
registered
      > medical practitioner gives a go-ahead, solely on the ground that you 
have a
      > "severe disability" (undefined under the Bill - Section 106 (f)). And if
      > you have more than 40% of any disability, anyone, on your behalf, can 
move
      > an Assessment Board to decide and impose upon you the means of high 
support
      > they deem you require - with no requirement to hear you or respect your
      > wishes (Section 37).
      COMMENTS:-I am ignorant...no comments.
      >
      > In all of the facts and circumstances, we are of the belief that while 
the
      > Bill is flawed for all persons with disabilities being brought under 
it, it
      > is especially disrespectful and inconsiderate of the diversity that the
      > Deaf community has to offer society.
      >
      > Best regards,
      >
      > Pavan Muntha






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