Hi Panos,

Sorry for the slow reply -- it was a busy telechat week for the IESG.
These changes look good; please go ahead and re-upload.

Thanks,

Ben

On Mon, Dec 02, 2019 at 05:37:07AM +0000, Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) wrote:
> Hi Ben,
> 
> Can you confirm if the diff 
> https://github.com/SanKumar2015/EST-coaps/commit/53933bb9f93657955555f2302baef2e39709ae05
>  addresses your feedback? I will then re-upload it.  
> 
> Thanks,
> Panos
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ace <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2019 2:07 PM
> To: Benjamin Kaduk <[email protected]>
> Cc: Yaron Sheffer <[email protected]>; 
> [email protected]; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Ace] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-ace-coap-est-15
> 
> Hi Ben,
> 
> All addressed, except for the last one. The diff is here 
> https://github.com/SanKumar2015/EST-coaps/commit/53933bb9f93657955555f2302baef2e39709ae05
>  
> 
> My responses below in Pk> 
> 
> I will wait for your confirmation before I upload version 17.
> 
> Panos
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Benjamin Kaduk <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 6:06 PM
> To: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <[email protected]>
> Cc: Yaron Sheffer <[email protected]>; 
> [email protected]; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Ace] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-ace-coap-est-15
> 
> Hi Panos,
> 
> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 03:06:01PM +0000, Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) wrote:
> > Hi Yaron,
> > 
> > Thank you for the thorough review and feedback. 
> > 
> > To make sure I don't miss any of your comments over an email thread, I 
> > track all your feedback in git issue 152 
> > https://github.com/SanKumar2015/EST-coaps/issues/152 There I tried to 
> > address all your comments and question and clarify some points. 
> > 
> > I also pushed minor changes to fix a few of the issues you brought up. 
> > The diff of the changes pushed is here 
> > https://github.com/SanKumar2015/EST-coaps/commit/86d785f2122596f28674f
> > e8e403d30467c98abfb
> > 
> > Please review the git issue and let us know if there are pending concerns. 
> > Otherwise I am planning to reupload a new iteration next week. 
> 
> Thanks for uploading the -16, and thanks again to Yaron for the very 
> thoughtful review.
> 
> Sadly, I seem to have not looked at the github diff closely enough/in a 
> timely fashion, so I think we'll need to publish a -17 before I can move this 
> into IESG evaluation.  Here's my remaining notes:
> 
> Section 4
> 
>    Private keys can be transported as responses to a server-side key
>    generation request as described in Section 4.4 of [RFC7030] and
>    discussed in Section 5.8 of this document.
> 
> I think that, since Yaron brought it up, we should say "Section 4.4 of 
> [RFC7030] (and subsections)".
> 
> PK> Fixed. 
> 
>    curve.  After the standardization of [RFC7748], support for
>    Curve25519 will likely be required in the future by (D)TLS Profiles
>    for the Internet of Things [RFC7925].
> 
> Sorry I missed this before -- "standardization" is a bit of a bugbear (7748 
> is Informational, not even Standards-Track, let alone full Internet Standard).
> 
> Pk> Replaced "standardization" with "publication". 
> 
>    In a constrained CoAP environment, endpoints can't always afford to
>    establish a DTLS connection for every EST transaction.
>    Authenticating and negotiating DTLS keys requires resources on low-
>    end endpoints and consumes valuable bandwidth.  To alleviate this
>    situation, an EST-coaps DTLS connection MAY remain open for
>    sequential EST transactions.  For example, an EST csrattrs request
>    that is followed by a simpleenroll request can use the same
>    authenticated DTLS connection.  However, when a cacerts request is
> 
> I think we can also clarify that this "MAY remain open" is changing 
> expectations from RFC 7030, where the expectation was that the TLS connection 
> did not remain open.
> 
> Pk> I added " which was not the case in [RFC7030]"
> 
> Section 10.1
> 
>    the first DTLS exchange.  Alternatively, in a case where a /sen
>    request immediately follows a /crts, a client MAY choose to keep the
>    connection authenticated by the Implicit TA open for efficiency
>    reasons (Section 4).  A client that interleaves EST-coaps /crts
>    request with other requests in the same DTLS connection SHOULD
>    revalidate the server certificate chain against the updated Explicit
>    TA from the /crts response before proceeding with the subsequent
>    requests.  If the server certificate chain does not authenticate
>    against the database, the client SHOULD close the connection without
>    completing the rest of the requests.  The updated Explicit TA MUST
>    continue to be used in new DTLS connections.
> 
> I think Yaron was saying that "even if the optimization of keeping the DTLS 
> connection open is useful in the general case, it is very risky and prone to 
> misimplementation when combined with /crts".  So, if I can rephrase the 
> propsal to be that we say something more like "even though in general the 
> DTLS connection can remain open for efficiency (Section 4), after a /crts 
> response, the client MUST close the DTLS connection and establish a new DTLS 
> connection for subsequent EST exchanges", are there reasons that we shouldn't 
> use that behavior?
> 
> Pk> I am not sure it is worth to add more complexity specific to /crts. 
> Pk> We would be adding more complexity for the client to track if this 
> Pk> TLS connection is a cacerts connection then I need to close it, if 
> Pk> it is any other connection then I can interleave requests. I am not 
> Pk> convinced that the risk is that big either. A malicious user that 
> Pk> was authenticated by the Implicit DB could easily craft a cacerts 
> Pk> response that allows him to be authenticated by the Explict DB. In 
> Pk> other words an active attacker would have no problems of fooling the 
> Pk> Explicit DB if he was allowed in by the Implicit DB. I think the 
> Pk> whole issue here is conceptual. The moment we get a new Trust DB we 
> Pk> need to trust it and not use the old one, but I don't think that 
> Pk> keeping the connection open for one or two more requests is that 
> Pk> risky. Even RFC7030 allows for it in the event that the client does 
> Pk> not have an Implicit DB when it is starting
> " The client MAY
>    provisionally continue the TLS handshake to completion for the
>    purposes of accessing the /cacerts or /fullcmc method. "
> I think the language as it is now is pretty clear on what we are trying to 
> do. And the Security Considerations spells out clearly. Of course, as always, 
> some implementer could make a mistake, but that could happen with RFC7030 and 
> any other RFC as well.  
> 
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