Dear all,

+1, I'd be curious to see EAP-over-CoAP.
+1, It seems to me that ACE could be home for such a document.

Best,
Giorgos

> On 3 Dec 2020, at 12:10, Dan Garcia <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Dear all:
> 
> Regarding the new charter, since ACE is considering the definition of CoAP 
> transport for CMPv2 
> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-msahni-ace-cmpv2-coap-transport-00 
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-msahni-ace-cmpv2-coap-transport-00>), we 
> were wondering whethere it could also consider specifying EAP (Extensible 
> Authentication Protocol) over CoAP.
> 
> In this sense, we proposed this some time ago and we have implementations 
> about this.
> 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-marin-ace-wg-coap-eap-06 
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-marin-ace-wg-coap-eap-06>
> https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/16/3/358 
> <https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/16/3/358>
> https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/17/11/2646 
> <https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/17/11/2646>
> 
> The usage of CoAP can provide a very light and link-layer independent (we 
> even tested in LoRa networks) EAP lower-layer (transport for EAP) suitable 
> for IoT enviroment. We believe this would be really useful since EAP provides 
> flexibility for the authentication and it is a well-known protocol.
> 
> Therefore, we would like to propose the following modification to the charter:
> 
> "The Working Group will examine how to use Constrained Application Protocol 
> (CoAP) as a transport medium for certificate enrollment protocols, such as 
> EST and CMPv2, as well as a transport for authentication protocols such as 
> EAP, and standardize them as needed."
> 
> This modification does not necessarily mean the adoption of our draft. After 
> all, we completely understand that this would happen only if there is an 
> interest in the WG. Nevertheless, we would like to avoid that the charter is 
> a barrier later if there is interest in the WG to work in this transport of 
> EAP over CoAP:
> 
> Any opinion about this?
> 
> Best Regards.
> 
> El 18/11/2020 a las 8:08, Daniel Migault escribió:
>> Hi, 
>> 
>> Please find the proposed charter we agreed on during the interim meeting. If 
>> you would like to propose any change, please use the following URL by 
>> November 25:
>> 
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RtxUSvUeBdZWoQkjSj2c3DtR8DuBwPM2BnBXhoDiptY/edit?usp=sharing
>>  
>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RtxUSvUeBdZWoQkjSj2c3DtR8DuBwPM2BnBXhoDiptY/edit?usp=sharing>
>> 
>> Yours, 
>> Daniel
>> 
>> The Authentication and Authorization for Constrained Environments (ace) WG 
>> has defined a standardized solution framework for authentication and 
>> authorization to enable authorized access to resources identified by a URI 
>> and hosted on a resource server in constrained environments. 
>> The access to the resource is mediated by an authorization server, which is 
>> not considered to be constrained.
>> 
>> Profiles of this framework for application to security protocols commonly 
>> used in constrained environments, including CoAP+DTLS and CoAP+OSCORE, have 
>> also been standardized.  The Working Group is charged with maintenance of 
>> the framework and existing profiles thereof, and may undertake work to 
>> specify profiles of the framework for additional secure communications 
>> protocols and for additional support services providing authorized access to 
>> crypto keys (that are not necessarily limited to constrained endpoints, 
>> though the focus remains on deployment in ecosystems with a substantial 
>> portion of constrained devices).
>> 
>> In addition to the ongoing maintenance work, the Working Group will extend 
>> the framework as needed for applicability to group communications, with 
>> initial focus on (D)TLS and (Group) OSCORE as the underlying group 
>> communication security protocols. The Working Group will standardize 
>> procedures for requesting and distributing group keying material using the 
>> ACE framework as well as appropriated management interfaces. 
>> 
>> The Working Group will standardize a format for expressing authorization 
>> information for a given authenticated principal as received from an 
>> authorization manager. 
>> 
>> The Working Group will examine how to use Constrained Application Protocol 
>> (CoAP) as a transport medium for certificate enrollment protocols, such as 
>> EST and CMPv2, and standardize as needed.
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 6:47 PM Benjamin Kaduk <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> Thanks for updating the draft charter at [1], Daniel!
>> 
>> I note that Michael raised the question of whether some other group might
>> also be interested in working on CMP-over-coap, so the IESG will be sure to
>> discuss that if CMP is still in the draft ACE charter when it goes to the
>> IESG for review.
>> 
>> -Ben
>> 
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 06:16:48PM -0500, Daniel Migault wrote:
>> > Thank you all for the feed backs. For the purpose of driving the charter
>> > discussion at the IETf 109, I have added the comments into the proposed
>> > text [1].
>> > 
>> > My current understanding is that it seems beneficial to add CMPv2 over CoAP
>> > in the charter. I am happy to be contradicted.
>> > * I have not seen a clear cut to do one or the other.
>> > * EST and CMPv2 are two protocols that can be used for enrollment or cert
>> > management while addressing different cases / needs / situations -- maybe
>> > we can clarify that point. I can see leveraging the existing CMP
>> > infrastructure, but it seems that is not the only one.
>> > * I am not convinced that not having CMP over CoAP will not prevent its
>> > deployment and as such I prefer to have it standardized - this might be a
>> > personal thought.
>> > * Adding any piece of work require cycles, but it seems to me that CPM will
>> > not have a major impact on the WG progress. The work will probably include
>> > other WG such a LAMPS.
>> > 
>> > Yours,
>> > Daniel
>> > 
>> > [1]
>> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RtxUSvUeBdZWoQkjSj2c3DtR8DuBwPM2BnBXhoDiptY/edit?usp=sharing
>> >  
>> > <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RtxUSvUeBdZWoQkjSj2c3DtR8DuBwPM2BnBXhoDiptY/edit?usp=sharing>
>> > 
>> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 6:02 PM Daniel Migault <[email protected] 
>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> > 
>> > > Hi Goran,
>> > >
>> > > I added the text to the charter we will discuss later.
>> > >
>> > > Yours,
>> > > Daniel
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 10:26 AM Göran Selander <
>> > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Hi Daniel,
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Here’s another input to the charter.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> The current group key management solutions addresses the problem of
>> > >> authorized access to group keys and public keys of group members.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> A related problem is authorized access of public keys of other devices
>> > >> not necessarily part of a security group, in the sense of sharing a
>> > >> symmetric key used to protect group messages.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Authorized access to raw public keys serves an important function in
>> > >> constrained settings where public key certificates may not be feasible 
>> > >> due
>> > >> to the incurred overhead, e.g. for when authenticating using EDHOC
>> > >> (draft-ietf-lake-edhoc).
>> > >>
>> > >> This functionality is thus a subset of what is already supported, but
>> > >> since the current solution is geared towards groups a different solution
>> > >> may be needed (although it is probably possible to reuse parts from the
>> > >> existing schemes for provisioning and requesting public keys).
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> With this in mind, I propose the following change (highlighted in
>> > >> boldface below):
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> OLD
>> > >>
>> > >> The Working Group is charged with maintenance of the framework and
>> > >> existing profiles thereof, and may undertake work to specify profiles of
>> > >> the framework for additional secure communications protocols (that are 
>> > >> not
>> > >> necessarily limited to constrained endpoints, though the focus remains 
>> > >> on
>> > >> deployment ecosystems with a substantial portion of constrained 
>> > >> devices).
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> NEW
>> > >>
>> > >> The Working Group is charged with maintenance of the framework and
>> > >> existing profiles thereof, and may undertake work to specify profiles of
>> > >> the framework for additional secure communications protocols *and **for
>> > >> additional **support services **providing* *authorized access to 
>> > >> crypto* *keys
>> > >> *(that are not necessarily limited to constrained endpoints, though the
>> > >> focus remains on deployment ecosystems with a substantial portion of
>> > >> constrained devices).
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Göran
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On 2020-10-15, 19:50, "Ace" <[email protected] 
>> > >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Hi,
>> > >>
>> > >> I would like to start the charter discussion. Here is a draft of a
>> > >> proposed charter [1].
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> It seems to be that additional discussion is needed with regard to the
>> > >> last paragraph related certificate management. In particular the 
>> > >> discussion
>> > >> might revive a discussion that happened in 2017 [2] - when I was not
>> > >> co-chair of ACE -and considered other expired work such as [3]. Please 
>> > >> make
>> > >> this discussion constructive on this thread.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> The fundamental question is whether we need certificate management at
>> > >> this stage. If the answer is yes, and we have multiple proposals, it 
>> > >> would
>> > >> be good to clarify the position of the different proposals and evaluate
>> > >> whether a selection is needed or not before validating the charter.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Please provide your inputs on the mailing list before October 30. Of
>> > >> course for minor edits, you may suggest them directly on the google doc.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Yours,
>> > >>
>> > >> Daniel
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> [1]
>> > >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RtxUSvUeBdZWoQkjSj2c3DtR8DuBwPM2BnBXhoDiptY/edit?usp=sharing
>> > >>  
>> > >> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RtxUSvUeBdZWoQkjSj2c3DtR8DuBwPM2BnBXhoDiptY/edit?usp=sharing>
>> > >> <
>> > >> https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=4f3d9c3b-118c475b-4f3ddca0-86e2237f51fb-627e48b069462d70&q=1&e=6924b2a6-e7e5-4ec1-a1af-c94637953dc5&u=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1RtxUSvUeBdZWoQkjSj2c3DtR8DuBwPM2BnBXhoDiptY%2Fedit%3Fusp%3Dsharing
>> > >>  
>> > >> <https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=4f3d9c3b-118c475b-4f3ddca0-86e2237f51fb-627e48b069462d70&q=1&e=6924b2a6-e7e5-4ec1-a1af-c94637953dc5&u=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1RtxUSvUeBdZWoQkjSj2c3DtR8DuBwPM2BnBXhoDiptY%2Fedit%3Fusp%3Dsharing>>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> [2]
>> > >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-interim-2017-ace-03-201710191300/
>> > >>  
>> > >> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-interim-2017-ace-03-201710191300/>
>> > >>
>> > >> [3] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-selander-ace-eals/ 
>> > >> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-selander-ace-eals/>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >>
>> > >> Daniel Migault
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Ericsson
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Daniel Migault
>> > > Ericsson
>> > >
>> > 
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > Daniel Migault
>> > Ericsson
>> 
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Ace mailing list
>> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace 
>> > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace>
>> 
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>> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace>
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Daniel Migault
>> Ericsson
>> 
>> 
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