It may not be the registry that limits your servers' scalability.  For
instance the list of scopes could be loaded into a memory in a linked
list, and thusly the scalability to many scopes degrades linearly (linear
is usually unacceptable).

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Brett Shirley

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Mulnick, Al wrote:

> That helps a great deal, thank you.  
> 
> Although I'll still need to know some of these limits, it looks like I'll
> have to go to regmon and find out.
> 
> Brett, I appreciate the thought and understand that the leases are recorded
> in the DB, but it won't be one scope.  It'll be multiple scopes.
> 
> Thanks folks.  This helps out a great deal.
> 
> Al 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Patrick
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:50 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] DHCP
> 
> If you are only concerned about the RSL - does it help to know that in XP
> and greater this isnt an issue?
> 
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;292726
> 
> steve
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brett Shirley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 8:45 PM
> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] DHCP
> 
> 
> >
> > So I got the info I needed out of band.
> >
> > If you manage the entire 10.*.*.* as a single scope I suspect* that you
> > won't have any worries.  I happen to know that DHCP uses an ESE database,
> > and looking at my sample DHCP DB (~66k records), it is quite clear** this
> > is where it stores IPs it gives out.  Ergo the size of the IP blocks is
> > irrelevant to usage of registry, only the number of scopes you want to
> > define.
> >
> > I suspect* (there is that word again), that just the definition of the
> > scope is in the registry, but (I'm 87% sure of this part) the actual per
> > IP storage is pushed off to ESE / JET Blue (no, not the same JET that is
> > in Microsoft Access, that's JET Red).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Brett Shirley
> >
> > * suspect = really that just means I'm making this all up.
> >
> > ** by clear, I mean the columns are called "HardwareAddress", "IpAddress",
> > "LeaseTerminates", "ServerName", etc ...
> >
> > On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, Brett Shirley wrote:
> >
> >> Is the 10.*.*.* block a single scope?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Brett
> >>
> >> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> >> rights.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, Roger Seielstad wrote:
> >>
> >> > Well, my friend, you could always break out a copy of RegMon from
> >> > Sysinternals and build a dozen or so representative scopes out on a lab
> 
> >> > box.
> >> > That should give you the per scope cost info you're after.
> >> >
> >> > >>From there, it seems like the number you really want is the maximum 
> >> > >>registry
> >> > size for a Win2k3 implementation.
> >> >
> >> > Personally, I never got the 80/20 split jazz. I always do 50/50 (or 
> >> > 100% on
> >> > one server in my current config, but that's a whole other story - 
> >> > redundancy
> >> > isn't terribly important for DHCP with the boxes I manage).
> >> >
> >> > --------
> >> > Roger Seielstad
> >> > E-mail Geek & MS-MVP
> >> >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mulnick, Al
> >> > > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 10:13 AM
> >> > > To: [email protected]
> >> > > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] DHCP
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks John.  I saw that one as well, but it doesn't tell me
> >> > > enough information about how much of an impact I can expect
> >> > > on the registry.  I understand the paging file and the RSL,
> >> > > but I can't get a solid amount of information about a) what
> >> > > to expect to be put in the registry *exactly* and
> >> > > b) what exactly each registry entry can possibly take in
> >> > > terms of size.
> >> > >
> >> > > A thousand scopes?  Nice to hear, but that doesn't solve the
> >> > > problem for me.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > For more background, I currently have similar running across
> >> > > four servers in two network sites. No problem.  What I want
> >> > > to do is isolate two different business types.  As you can
> >> > > imagine from the domain name, we're a financial institution
> >> > > and we have retail branches across all lines of business.  We
> >> > > also have back-office needs.  To make this more reliable, I
> >> > > need to take into account the 8th layer and design
> >> > > accordingly.  My current track is to simplify by separation
> >> > > and put the branch scopes on two servers and the
> >> > > rest/exceptions on the other two.  To do that, I need to know
> >> > > the limits.
> >> > > The additional benefit of knowing the quantifiable benefits
> >> > > is the ability to predict capacity and lifespan of the
> >> > > solution.  That obviously plays into lifecycle management
> >> > > planning of the solution. Due to the business nature of
> >> > > finacial organizations, I have to plan for twice the capacity
> >> > > of current.
> >> > > In practice, that means that I have to at least know the
> >> > > capacity abilities of the current solution or the future
> >> > > solution enough to know that if an acquisition occurs, I can
> >> > > either deploy more capacity else know that I can use the
> >> > > current to that scale.
> >> > >
> >> > > The docs I've found so far, including the one you posted and
> >> > > the information from Jorge were too high-level for what I'm
> >> > > after. I appreciate them but I still need additional
> >> > > information to make this design right.
> >> > >
> >> > > Thoughts?
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks John,
> >> > >
> >> > > Al
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John
> >> > > Reijnders
> >> > > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:29 AM
> >> > > To: [email protected]
> >> > > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] DHCP
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi Al,
> >> > >
> >> > > Looking in the Windows Server System Reference Architecture
> >> > > you can read:
> >> > >
> >> > > "... scaling the DHCP service involves network infrastructure
> >> > > issues for most enterprises." -> However, according to your
> >> > > question this does not apply for your network. Lucky you ;-)!
> >> > >
> >> > > The following quote relates to your question:
> >> > >
> >> > > "You can create an unlimited number of scopes on a DHCP
> >> > > server. However, a DHCP server should ideally host no more
> >> > > than 1,000 scopes. When adding a large number of scopes to
> >> > > the server, be aware that each scope creates a corresponding
> >> > > need for additional disk space for the DHCP server registry
> >> > > and the server paging file.
> >> > >
> >> > > Before deployment, you should test your DHCP servers on the
> >> > > network to determine any limitations and abilities of your
> >> > > hardware and to see whether the network architecture,
> >> > > traffic, and other factors affect DHCP server performance."
> >> > >
> >> > > However, it still doesn't answer it. However, there is a
> >> > > specific article about planning DHCP networks that might (not
> >> > > sure) deal with this topic.
> >> > > This is the URL:
> >> > > http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2
> >> > > 003/standard/p
> >> > > roddocs/en-us/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/Windows
> >> > Serv/2003/stan
> >> > > dard/proddocs/en-us/sag_DHCP_imp_PlanningNetworks.asp
> >> > >
> >> > > Good luck!
> >> > > John Reijnders
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mulnick, Al
> >> > > Sent: maandag 3 januari 2005 17:08
> >> > > To: [email protected]
> >> > > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] DHCP
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks Jorge, I did see and read that.  Unless I'm missing
> >> > > something in there, it doesn't answer the questions however.
> >> > > It does give some ideas, but it's not detailed enough to help.
> >> > >
> >> > > Al
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> >> > > Jorge de Almeida Pinto
> >> > > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:02 AM
> >> > > To: [email protected]
> >> > > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] DHCP
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi Al,
> >> > >
> >> > > Give a try with the W2K3 Deployment Kit - Designing Network
> >> > > Services ->
> >> > > http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/WindowsServ/2
> >> > > 003/all/deploy
> >> > > guide/en-us/DNSBC_DHC_OVERVIEW.asp
> >> > >
> >> > > Regards,
> >> > > Jorge
> >> > >
> >> > > ________________________________
> >> > >
> >> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mulnick, Al
> >> > > Sent: maandag 3 januari 2005 15:15
> >> > > To: [email protected]
> >> > > Subject: [ActiveDir] DHCP
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > I'm looking for more precise information for DHCP sizing and
> >> > > I'd appreciate any real-world information as well.
> >> > >
> >> > > What I'm trying to find out is how much registry space one
> >> > > DHCP server requires at max capacity.  I realize that a DHCP
> >> > > server puts information in the registry for each scope. What
> >> > > exactly it's supposed to put in there under any given
> >> > > circumstance is a little less clear.  How much space it
> >> > > requires or a way to estimate how much possible space could
> >> > > be used is totally unclear.  I did find some information
> >> > > about RSL (max registry size
> >> > > basically) and about Microsoft's case study with their DHCP
> >> > > usage.  That's not enough information though.
> >> > >
> >> > > I'd like to find out what my limits are.  For example, I'm
> >> > > interested in what would happen if I put the entire 10.x.x.x
> >> > > netblock on a single DHCP
> >> > > server.   Before you tell me that shouldn't happen because of fault
> >> > > tolerance or network topology, I can tell you that network
> >> > > bandwidth is not a problem I suffer from.  Fault tolerance
> >> > > for DHCP is often done via settings and the 80/20 split
> >> > > concept, although at some point it's possible that one server
> >> > > would have to achieve 100% during a failure scenario.  Also,
> >> > > what is 80% capacity for one server?
> >> > >
> >> > > Enough of the rambling...    If anyone could point me in a
> >> > > better direction,
> >> > > I'd appreciate it.  At worst, if you have any tools that
> >> > > would help to measure registry impact, that would be
> >> > > appreciated.  I haven't investigated that route yet, but
> >> > > suspect that sysinternals likely has something I can use.
> >> > > I'm interested in the theoretical and the folks that wrote the code.
> >> > >
> >> > > Questions I need to answer:
> >> > > What is the max possible impact of the DHCP application on
> >> > > the registry?
> >> > > What is the practical limit of a DHCP server in quantifiable terms?
> >> > >
> >> > > Additional question from me:
> >> > > Does anyone have any documents they can point me to that give
> >> > > the possible registry impact when scaling a DHCP server?
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > TIA
> >> > >
> >> > > (Happy New Year BTW to those following the Gregorian
> >> > > Calendarical system  ;)
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Al Mulnick
> >> > >
> >> > > "I strive to be unique.  Just like everybody else"
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
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