Using my non-scientific personal observations, of the last 50 or so
customers I've been to I believe only 3 had lag sites.  Of those 3, none had
done what I'd call a good job of setting it up (they had basically just
created a separate site with a longer replication interval).  Of the other
~47, perhaps half knew of lag sites and were either interested in the
concept or had plans to implement them.  How many actually will I can't say.
These are all Premier customers.

So, based on my personal experience, I'm more inclined to agree with Todd.
I think, however, that over the next couple years lag sites will become the
norm as virtualization becomes commonplace and best practices are better
documented and understood.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan
> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 15:49
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] AD DR - replication lag site----Why?
> 
> Todd,
> 
> With all due respect, I think there are more people doing 
> this than you think.  You aren�t using a Lag Site, so it�s 
> �whacky�.  Your opinion, so you�re entitled to it.
> 
> PSS blessed our implementation, BTW.  If you�d like, I�ll be 
> happy to provide you with contacts for the ROSS tech (out of 
> Los Colinas) that did our recent AD Health check in advance 
> of our Win2k3/E2k3 upgrade.  He stated that this was becoming 
> a cheap, scalable solution to providing DR � and a few large 
> organizations were using them at warm/hot sites because they 
> also meet criteria for DR as addressed and required for Sarbanes.
> 
> And, I don�t question the fact that a poor site design can 
> cause problems.  But, humbly, I submit that I know what I�m 
> doing.  Learn from what I do � or learn not.  That�s up to 
> you.  I know that you have a liking for Quest � which is 
> fine.  I use some of their tools � just not Recovery Manager. 
>  However, in a DR situation when your DCs are being rebuilt 
> from scratch � Recovery Manager is not a very valuable tool 
> when there are no objects to �undelete�.
> 
> As for Guido � I hope he chimes in as well.  He seems to be 
> one of the few that you trust � regardless of those that have 
> supported you in the past.  Hopefully then � we can put this 
> behind us.  Me, I�ll keep doing what has been successful for 
> me for two years, thank you.
> 
> -rtk
> 
>  
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Myrick, Todd (NIH/CC/DNA)
> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:59 AM
> To: [email protected]; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] AD DR - replication lag site----Why?
> 
>  
> 
> I disagree that Lag sites are popular, maybe with you and at 
> AD conferences as a session.  I tend to avoid those sessions.  
> 
>  
> 
> To all those considering this as a viable solution, why not 
> run it by MSC or PSS and see what they say.  We get something 
> called a supportability review before we implement anything 
> to whacky at my organization.  
> 
>  
> 
> There are so many things that can go wrong with a improper 
> site design and object reanimation that I just say avoid doing it.
> 
>  
> 
> I am waiting for Guido to chime in on this.
> 
>  
> 
> Todd
> 
>  
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: Dan Holme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thu 5/19/2005 10:16 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] AD DR - replication lag site----Why?
> 
> Two more notes on this issue: 
> 
> 1) THIRD PARTY AD RESTORE TOOLS.  Sounds like it's clear, 
> now, WHY lag sites are so popular.  Yes, there are third 
> party products (particularly Quest Recovery Manager) that 
> work quite well if you have a budget for that.  Here's my 
> take as to why my IT budget shouldn't be spent on those tools 
> (and *should* be spent on OTHER tools by some of those same 
> companies).
> 
>         a) Deleted objects can be avoided with proper 
> delegation.  It's so important that you properly delegate and 
> properly use accounts with administrative logon (i.e. with 
> 'secondary logon' only) that this trumps just about 
> everything.  At most of my clients, NOBODY (from a practical 
> perspective) can delete users or groups.  We have a process 
> we call graveyarding, whereby an account is tagged (using a 
> variety of methods) and, with a SCRIPT, moved to an OU where 
> they stay for 90 days before being deleted (again, only by 
> the SCRIPT).  The only other accounts that can delete users 
> and groups are the super-high admins (e.g. Domain Admins 
> equivalents).  This is only a piece of the picture, but it is 
> an important piece.
> 
>         b) Deleted objects can be restored for FREE using 
> ADRESTORE from Sysinternals.  Granted, this tool brings back 
> only the object (SID, GUID, DN, CN) but that's all that 
> really matters, right?  The best (FREE) approaches we take at 
> clients include *regularly* logging group memberships in a 
> custom database (to compare to last-knowns and watch for 
> issues easily and free-ly).  So when we restore a group we 
> can repopulate membership quickly, anyway.  So with good 
> processes, it's FREE and easy to restore objects in most situations.
> 
>         c) Windows Server 2003 SP1 adds a feature that makes 
> reanimating Groups MUCH easier when you have deleted groups & 
> users.  No more "auth restore two times" necessary. (Haven't 
> seen it?  Do an auth restore on a group on an SP1 DC and find 
> the LDIF file it creates!!)
> 
>         d) that leaves only really nasty deletions (e.g. an 
> entire OU), which, given a & b, will probably never happen.  
> And when they do, an auth restore on a lag site takes a very 
> short time.
> 
>         e) therefore, I save my IT budget and use the $ on 
> tools to aid provisioning, auditing & monitoring, again to 
> avoid problems in the first place.
> 
> 2) PREVENTING AUTHENTICATION ON LAG SITE.  As I mentioned, 
> the method I've heard of, and that we're testing, is to stop 
> the NetLogon service on the lag DCs.  There are several ways 
> to avoid it restarting when/if the DC is rebooted.  The 
> article referenced in the ORIGINAL post suggested modifying 
> which SRV records are registered.  This should work, I'd 
> guess, and is more elegant.  The trick is that SRV records 
> are not registered.  The A records still are, so DCs should 
> be able to find each other and replicate successfully, but 
> clients won't 'see' the DCs as a viable authentication 
> option.  I've not tried that approach but it sounded really good.
> 
> 3) OK, three notes.  LAG SITES can be done with DCs in a site 
> with a long replication interval, or by changing the 
> replication WINDOW (schedule).  It's a good idea to have TWO 
> lag sites on alternating frequencies, to avoid a situation 
> where something awful happens just before a lag site happens 
> to replicate.  Someone detailed this earlier, and it's a good note!
> 
> Dan 
>   
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Myrick, Todd (NIH/CC/DNA)
> 
> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 6:34 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] AD DR - replication lag site----Why? 
> 
> Is it cheaper and more efficient to go the replication lag 
> site route than buy a proper backup and object level restore 
> solution?  
> 
> I mean not to toot a vendor's horn, but Quest recovery 
> manager turns the process of restoring objects into a 15 
> minute click click operation.  I would hate to think of the 
> number of steps you all must do to reanimate the object in a 
> directory using the "Recovery Site". 
> 
> >From a operations standpoint, there is no substitute for a proper 
> >backup
> solution and object level restore utility for AD. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> Todd Myrick 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TIROA YANN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 4:20 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] AD DR - replication lag site 
> 
> Neil, 
> 
> I now understand... I'm a new man by now thanks to the 
> mysterious lag site that have been revealed to me :-)) 
> 
> Thanks a lot for your explanations. 
> 
> Cordialement, 
> 
> Yann TIROA 
> 
> Centre de Ressources Informatique. 
> Campus Scientifique de la DOUA. 
> B�t. Gabriel Lippmann - 2 �me �tage - salle 238. 
> 43, Bd du 11 Novembre 1918. 
> 69622 Villeurbanne Cedex. 
> 
>  
> 
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de 
> Ruston, Neil Envoy� : jeudi 19 mai 2005 10:09 � : 
> '[email protected]' 
> Objet : RE: [ActiveDir] AD DR - replication lag site 
> 
> If the deletion occurs on DC1, then a DC (DC2) in the lag 
> site will not receive the deletion immediately. You therefore 
> have a window of opportunity in which the deletion may be 'undone'. 
> 
> The deleted object may be auth restored on DC2 and thus 
> replicated / reanimated on DC1 (and any other DC which has 
> received the deletion). 
> 
> [My terminology may not be acceptable to some - I have 
> deliberately explained this in simplistic terms :)] 
> 
> neil 
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TIROA YANN
> Sent: 19 May 2005 08:54
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] AD DR - replication lag site 
> 
>  
> 
> Hello, 
> 
> I must apologize, but i'm a little bit confused. You said 
> "With a lag site, you ONLY have to do an authoritative 
> restore (NTDSUTIL)". 
> 
> Do you mean if i delete my OU in DC in site A, all i have to 
> do is do an autoritative restore, not on site A, BUT on DC on 
> lag site, reboot, and dforce replication to site A ? And the 
> non-autoritative restore will be in fact the data on the lag 
> site, that explain your pr�vious sentence ? Waou! 
> That's very celver !! 
> 
> Am I right ? 
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> Yann 
> 
>  
> 
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Dan 
> Holme Envoy� : 
> jeudi 19 mai 2005 08:51 � : [email protected] Objet : RE: 
> [ActiveDir] AD DR - replication lag site 
> 
> The major issue is the SPEED of recovery.  With a lag site, 
> you ONLY have to do an authoritative restore (NTDSUTIL). 
> 
> Without a lag site, you must first restore the AD from backup 
> tape ('normal' 
> restore), which can take quite some time!!!! Then, and only 
> then, can you do the auth restore. 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TIROA YANN
> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:46 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] AD DR - replication lag site 
> 
> Hello, 
> 
> Thanks for this interesting tips, but i didn't really 
> understand the "behind the techno"  of a lag site in case of 
> just a deletion of an entire OU with many objects. 
> 
> For example,if I have AD 2003 domain with 2 sites: 
> Site A has 2 DCs
> Site B has one DC and is the lag site
> Between 2 sites, i scheduled repl to appear every 1 week. 
> 
> In the situation of an OU deletion, i go to the DC i have 
> made the deletion, and do an autoritative restore in dsmode 
> and after rebbot, wait for replication to take place in order 
> to repopulate all my domain with my OU restored. So what will 
> the lag site help me in this situation ? 
> 
> I can understand that a lag site will help me if all my DCs 
> in site A crashed. So i would take all informations from the 
> lag site to be restored in site A such as "copy" my domain 
> from the lag site by doing a dcpromo /adv, and go my freshly 
> installed DCs on site A, and restored my whole domain. 
> However, I think i will have more updated information by 
> restoring from my yerterday backup than from the lag site... 
> 
> So, could you help me better understand the behind the techno 
> of a lag site, i thing i misunderstand something important ;-( 
> 
> Thank you for your feedback. 
> 
> Have a nice day :-) 
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> Yann 
> 
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