Re: [ActiveDir] Microsofts Exchange Server 12 64 bit announcement

Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:42:26 -0800 

Brett hasn't seen my box.  :-)
But honestly there are times in SBSland that we underspec the RAM and overspec the duties. 



Brett Shirley wrote:

Cost debate ...

I've heard that on big Exchange servers that by a factor of 4 or 5 to 1,
the cost is mostly spent on big disk hardware (read as SAN).  It is the
IOPS that cost.  With a 4x drop in IOPS required, the same hardware will
be usable for more users/servers.  Clearly the people who get the rub is
the medium and small businesses ...

Well, even the medium business may have some savings, in that if they're
on the small-ish side of medium business, they will have the new Centro
bundles, that I think save on software costs.  And if on the larger end,
they're probably bursting at thier disk subsystems seams, they may not
have to move to a SAN so soon, or their SAN may last them alot longer.

With everything they pack on a small business server, they're probably
overloaded already, and _esp_ tight in kernel memory address space, I'm
surprised they don't hit NPP exhaustion all the time.  It is likely this
will be a blessing in disguise, with 64-bit address space, and 8 GBs of
memory, those servers will be happier servers.

Engh, clearly it is _not_ the most ideal, but I don't think it will be too
bad.  People have been pointing out, alot of people are unknowningly
buying the right hardware today.  I appologize to the small business
crowd, when upgrading, please plan on buying a new server one to three
years from now.

Brian, do you mind sharing of the 400k you spent, what proportion was disk
hardware that could be transistioned?

Brian, if it's difficult to repurpose hardware, I suggest you inform the
org, that you'll be working on "tuning the hardware config of those old
Exch servers in your office, until they figure out where they want you to
actually repurpose them".  That should give you some nice desktop
development box for at least a few years. ;)

Unfortunately, there are other costs besides new hardware. :P For instance
is any of the backup software, or the anti-virus software, or possibly
your monitoring agents going to be native 64-bit?  Some of them may even
need to be to run on 64-bit servers.  Not to mention the cost (in time) of
getting an admin to perform migration, over a more silent, just upgrade
the binaries type upgrade.  Remember a month of an admins time is a
company committing between 5k and 15k to that effort.

All this gets weighed.

On the other side of the sacle, however, is that in place upgrades,
prevent the development team from making the most drastic changes, because
the code must be made to either upgrade the database (often intractable)
or have two code paths to handle both formats (often unsupportable long
term).  I don't think there are actually too many people who would trade
the 4x IOPS savings, for in-place upgrade feature.

Also in some ways moving to 64-bit wholesale, actually improves the story
for all those other bits of ancillary software, because vendors won't let
the 64-bit support linger.

Engh, clearly it is _not_ the most ideal, but I don't think it will be a
terrible burden.  People have been pointing out, alot of people are
unknowningly buying the right hardware today.  I appologize to the small
business crowd, when upgrading, please plan on buying a new server one to
three years from now.

Cheers,
BrettSh [msft]
ESE Developer

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005, Brian Desmond wrote:


  

I wish it as that easy. Dysfunctional silo'ed government organizations make
simple things like moving hardware to a new task a monumental task.
Especially when there are use restrictions on funds used to purchase things.


Thanks,
Brian Desmond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 
c - 312.731.3132
 
 


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Murray
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 9:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Microsofts Exchange Server 12 64 bit announcement

Most organisations (including yours perhaps?) could plan to redeploy
current Exchange hardware elsewhere if it's not quite end-of-life by the
time they're ready to deploy E12.  Not all systems will have the 64 bit
requirement in the time frame we are talking about, so you are likely to
have some flexibility if you have other servers that you need to
hardware refresh in the meantime.

Just a thought.

Tony


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Desmond
Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2005 2:33 p.m.
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Microsofts Exchange Server 12 64 bit
announcement

I see this environment lasting pas the E12 timeline. It has a ton of
room to
grow in all aspects of the hardware. This seems like the sort of thing
that

they needed to have announced a while ago. 


Thanks,
Brian Desmond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 
c - 312.731.3132
 
 


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Mulnick
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 12:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Microsofts Exchange Server 12 64 bit
announcement

How long before you expect to upgrade?  And how does that compare with

the 
hardware lifecycle?


If you find a way to future proof anything in this business, please let

the 
rest of us know. :)


As for Joe's question: are there other packages available?  Yep.  But as

with anything it depends on what you want to accomplish and your

tolerance 
for changes.  One option might be the open source version of 
http://www.zimbra.com/products/index.html which implements what looks to
be 
a popular new path - AJAX.


There are other open source projects out there as well, but sometimes

you 
really do get what you pay for.


-ajm



    

From: "Brian Desmond" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Microsofts Exchange Server 12 64 bit

      

announcement

    

Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:00:26 -0500

Neither do I. We just put in a 400K dollar Exchange 2003 environment

      

like 
    

18
months ago. I don't think the client is going to be thrilled to hear

      

that

    

was all a waste as it will only run one version of Exchange.



Thanks,
Brian Desmond

 <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]



c - 312.731.3132





  _____

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 10:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Microsofts Exchange Server 12 64 bit

      

announcement

    


Wow. I don't recall Muglia making that statement at the summit, I think

      

he

    

would have been beaten up pretty bad....





"Muglia made several product announcements during his keynote address.




As part of its commitment to 64-bit computing, Microsoft has been 
delivering

products that are optimized for 64-bit, including the newly released

      

SQL

    

ServerT 2005, Visual StudioR 2005 and Virtual Server 2005 R2. To help
customers take full advantage of the power of 64-bit computing,

      

products

    

including MicrosoftR Exchange Server "12," Windows Compute Cluster

      

Server

    

2003, Windows ServerT "Longhorn" Small Business Server, and Microsoft's
infrastructure solution for midsize businesses, code-named "Centro,"

      

will 
    

be
exclusively 64-bit and optimized for x64 hardware. In a future update
release to Microsoft's upcoming Windows Server "Longhorn" operating

      

system,

    

code-named Windows Server "Longhorn" R2, customers will see the

      

complete

    

transition to 64-bit-only hardware, while still benefiting from 32-bit

      

and

    

64-bit application compatibility. For the highest-scale application and
database workloads, Windows Server on 64-bit Itanium-based systems will
continue to be the premier choice for customers for years to come."



The LH SBS package is pretty funny too... Imagine going into all of

      

those

    

small companies and telling them they don't have a choice but to buy a

      

new

    

server when they want to get the new security enhancements.



I hope MS decides to support K3 and Exchange K3 for some time. Though I

      

am

    

already seeing a huge reduced emphasis and making K3 work right now.



Any good non-GNU message/collaboration apps out there? Something with

      

maybe

    

a BSD license?



   joe





  _____

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Desmond
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 9:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Microsofts Exchange Server 12 64 bit

      

announcement

    

Where'd you find that?



Thanks,
Brian Desmond

 <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]



c - 312.731.3132





  _____

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Tuip
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 3:33 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[email protected]
Subject: [ActiveDir] Microsofts Exchange Server 12 64 bit announcement



This just in:

"As some of you are attending IT Forum in Barcelona, I want to make

      

sure

    

those of you who are not get the latest updates. At IT Forum, Microsoft

      
will

announce broad support for 64 bit across many of its product lines. As

      

part

    

of that announcement we will be announcing that Exchange 12 will be 64

      

bit

    

only.  This is a significant decision for us and it is one that we did

      

not

    

make lightly. Many of you and your customers may have questions about

      

why

    

Exchange 12 will be 64 bit only and the mail below provides some

      

background

    

on the factors that lead to this decision and also the benefits from 64

      

bit

    

that we are seeing in our early dog food & TAP deployments."



Martin Tuip

MVP Exchange


      

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