How about some good COM Addins so you can be consistent like MS? Then I can implement IJoePlugin17 to add a tab to your thing.
Addins with .net are rather easy to architect though - would be my preference. Thanks, Brian Desmond [EMAIL PROTECTED] c - 312.731.3132 > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:ActiveDir- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe > Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 8:56 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Re: [ActiveDir] ADAM Management Tool REQs and > Desires...... WAS: Internet Authentication Concepts: Pointers? > > I was thinking of something a little more robust than ADUC with > extensions. More of a combination of ADUC, DSSITES, ADSIEDIT, Schema > Managemer, and some yet to be publicly seen ADAM specific management > stuff. Maybe some form of tie in to MIIS/IIFP/ADAMSynch for easily > configuring those products so you don't have to hurt your forehead > slamming the wall. > > I understand the desire for extension capability but even there, how > many people are actually taking advantage of it? Yes it is a pain now > for ADUC but it exists and if people wanted to use it bad enough, they > would figure it out. Next question, how do you do EASY extension > capability that is flexible and powerful and useable? Add to that not > requiring people to use NET to do things. I haven't completely shut the > door on NET but it is bottom of the pile for things I want to do or > require. I have had way too many people write me (some of whom I even > respect) and say that one of the beautiful things about my code is that > I am not using/requiring NET. > > I feel similar when I hear people say that NET and MONAD are going to > make most everyone scripters and programmers. I think we will see > Australian Ice Hockey becoming the next great global sport before we > see everyone or even a majority of admins becoming scripters and > programmers with NET unless MSFT dumbs it down considerably more, the > object model is enough to scare most people away. Don't get me wrong, I > think NET is going to be popular, just like JAVA was/is. But there are > a lot of coders who won't go near it. > > So the next question is.... What kind of extension model do you go > with? Honestly it would have to be some RAD drag and drop with field > tweak kind of extension in my opinion. I would visualize you saying ADD > TAB, then laying out the form the way you like to see data, specifying > the attribute to be displayed in the various fields and specifying HOW > it should be displayed with the schema being used to determine a > default and possibly helping control what other ways it could be > displayed. Possibly adding in data rules that control what can be typed > in the fields (like forcing a phone to fit to (xxx)xxx-xxxx or > something (yes I know I just pissed off every international person with > that example... It was an example)). > > Possibly it have some ability to call out to external pieces but most > likely not because that just adds all sorts of stability and > supportability issues. Of course that would piss off a some folks who > want to integrate some custom NET code or whatever but again I think > that would be the minority of the folks. If someone is so good with > NET, they are going to write their own tools anyway. Otherwise they are > just playing with it and you don't want someone playing with NET > writing extensions for your application, it would be a nightmare to > support for a large company let alone someone small like me, myself, > and I. > > So interesting. I expected more suggestions, are people just not really > using ADAM yet or is everyone just happy with the command line tools > they are using for it? > > joe > > > > -- > O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition - > http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:ActiveDir- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Mulnick > Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 12:45 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Re: [ActiveDir] ADAM Management Tool REQs and > Desires...... WAS: Internet Authentication Concepts: Pointers? > > That really is the point of ADAM, isn't it? To be flexible and highly > customizable? > > > I have to agree with JoeK on this: it needs to be extensible in keeping > with ADAM's charter. > > Some of the basics would be cool, but then how do you make sense of an > object in a customized directory unless you have a way to a) read it > and b) get some sort of manifest that tells you the meaning and c) maps > it for you to your task? To my knowledge, there is no standards based > definition in that sense. I can pick whatever I want to be a <insert > type> object and define whatever rules I want as well. How would a > tool know that? > > To make it easily extensible, i.e. create a totally easy language that > plugs into a console would go a lot further in my opinion, than trying > to capture an ADAM management tool that goes beyond ADSIEDIT/ldp. > Today, it's write your own, or make do. I'm sure some of that will > continue, but having the ability to easily write your own and plug it > into a well thought out graphical based administration system might be > useful to some. At the least, I'm sure it would differentiate ADAM from > other lightweight ldap directories that run on more platforms ;-) > > -ajm > > > On 4/29/06, Joe Kaplan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The difficulty with building a tool like this is that it is a huge > > leap to go from a low level editing tool like ADSI Edit to a high > > level, task-based UI like ADUC. The problem is that it is nearly > > impossible to infer the semantic meaning of attributes in the > > directory in a generic way such that you can have objects with > > arbitrary schema. It is already hard enough just to come up with > > reasonable text and graphical views of all the random binary data > that > > a directory can store. For example, your directory might store > GUIDs, > > X509Certificates and JPEGs, but the schema only knows it is binary > > data. Unless you have a hard-coded list somewhere, it is hard to do > > anything with it besides showing you the raw bytes (which is almost > never interesting to most people). > > > > As such, you kind of need to either come up with a UI that just > > provides some compelling task-based features for a very narrow schema > > that ships with the product and/or provide a really well-conceived > > extensibility mechanism that allows easy declarative construction of > > useful UI features with minimal coding (or you'll scare away the > > non-coders). Doing something like that successfully it a pretty huge > > undertaking, not matter what presentation framework you choose (web, > CLI, Windows, etc.). > > > > Personally, I think the answer for this type of tool lies with the > > whole managed code/Monad-based MMC thing that is coming. It will > > significantly lower the bar to getting custom extensions into the UI > > and hopefully create a new eco-system of useful tools that vary from > > universally needed to extremely domain-specific. > > > > That said, there are probably some tools that we really need for ADAM > > that would be hard for most of us besides Joe to write. I'm not > > entirely sure what the sweet spot is though. > > > > Joe K. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jef Kazimer > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:26 PM > > Subject: RE: Re: [ActiveDir] ADAM Management Tool REQs and > Desires...... > > WAS: Internet Authentication Concepts: Pointers? > > > > > > Ok.... > > > > So are you thinking winForm Gui? Web? MMC? Console? I know you like > > command line....but ad I hear there are some great tools already in > > existence. :) > > > > ADSIedit is great for MOST things, but I would fear giving it to a > > helpdesk guy, or an application admin who has no idea what LDAP > really > > is. They just want an Identty store. > > > > Soo.... > > > > Something that abstracts the user from LDAP (OUs, DNs, etc....scary > > stuff!) but shows them as a simple TreeView of the directory > > > > Management templates that glean data from the defined Schema and are > > customizeable. Since ADAM can have a very custom Schema, the tool > would > > need to be flexible to accommodate that. IE select the Dog object, > > and be able to modify the Neutered boolean attribute. > > > > These templates should be customizable in a simple fashion that does > > not require extensive development knowledge :) > > > > Build in basic routines for common functions like password reset, > etc. > > > > I guess a more customizeable ADUC for ADAM :) > > > > > > Maybe the name should be "theWelch" since Jerry said "ME!"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Re: [ActiveDir] ADAM Management Tool REQs and > Desires...... > > WAS: Internet Authentication Concepts: Pointers? > > Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:38:16 -0400 > > > > > > I am not quite sure what question that response was intended to > answer.... > > > > Was that, you would like a good ADAM management tool? If so, describe > > that tool. If Murray isn't happy, we can take it offlist. I can do > > this through personal email or spin up a forum on my website for it. > I > > am very interested in hearing what people think is needed. I was told > > the perfect name for the tool over a year ago, I just haven't written > > the tool to go with the name yet. At some point I will have to do > > something with it. :) > > > > > > -- > > O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition - > > http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Welch > > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:21 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Re: [ActiveDir] ADAM Management Tool REQs and > Desires...... > > WAS: Internet Authentication Concepts: Pointers? > > > > > > ME ! > > > > Jerry Welch > > CPS Systems > > US/Canada: 888-666-0277 > > International: +1 703 827 0919 (-5 GMT) IP Phone (Skype): > Jerry_Welch > > ( www.skype.net ) > > IP Phone (VOIP): Jerry_Welch ( www.voipstunt.com ) > > VOIP to Landline: callto:+1-703-827-0919 > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joe > > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:46 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Re: [ActiveDir] ADAM Management Tool REQs and > Desires...... > > WAS: Internet Authentication Concepts: Pointers? > > > > > > I have some curiosity in this realm... > > > > What would everyone consider good things and requirements for an ADAM > > management tool. Even assuming, cough, GUI. > > > > joe > > > > -- > > O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition - > > http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jef Kazimer > > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:01 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Re: [ActiveDir] Internet Authentication Concepts: > Pointers? > > > > > > Since it is "LDAP" I did look at some "friendlier" admin tools, but > none > > really hit the mark for me. I believed that group looked at > Softerra's > > tool, and there is the web based PHP LDAP manager, and also the C# > > LDAP manager tool. You can Live search the names or I can post the > > links here if you want. > > > > In the end I wrote my own as a .NET web app since I found them > lacking. > > Yet as I said if I want to go global, I don't know if I want to > > position what I wrote without some major changes. :) > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: [ActiveDir] Internet Authentication Concepts: > Pointers? > > Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:44:55 -0400 > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > That's a very good point. Does anyone know of any 3rd parties which > > improve the ADAM administrative UI "experience"? > > > > > > J. Fitzgerald (Fitz) Stewart > > Systems Architect > > IRM/OPS/ENM > > Worldwide Information Network Systems > > USAID/DoS IT Infrastructure Collaboration Program > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > 703-866-7473 > > 703-626-5741 (cell) > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jef Kazimer > > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 9:27 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Re: [ActiveDir] Internet Authentication Concepts: > Pointers? > > > > Mylo, > > > > Thanks for the information! > > > > I have setup ADAM utilizing a custom web UI utilizing AZman for a > > small project before, but I have concerns about scalabilty. The > > issues are not with the ADAM instance at all, but the UI that is > needed to manage ADAM. > > ADSIedit is great for someone who understands the directory, but it's > > not that user friendly for web application owners, helpdesk, etc. > > This was for a simple application of about 500 users, and it met > their > > needs but I don't see this as a scalable solution from a global > perspective. > > > > This will be a backend data store that contains the user identity, > but > > the applications that utilize it will be of different flavors from > DMZ hosted > > web apps, to externally hosted apps. The flavors of web apps will > range > > from websphere, ColdFusion, .NET and I suspect some PHP apps. > > > > With AD, I guess I was thinking it has a well known support > interface > > (though I am sure I would need to customize anyway...so I'm not sure > that > > value is really there). So I was expecting to maybe find 3rd > parties that > > do sit in front of this to manage the IDs stored. Though this could > be AD or > > ADAM with ADAM being the most cost effective. This looks like > siteMinder > > might be a good solution to manage all of these environments but I > > will need to look into that. > > > > > > I suppose I am getting ahead of myself, because I do not know the > > requirements as of yet, and I'm making assumptions that could be > totally off > > the mark here. I guess it's a new environment and wanted to get > some info > > ahead of before it was needed. :) > > > > Thanks again! > > > > Jef > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:40:09 +0200 > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Internet Authentication Concepts: > Pointers? > > > > > > Jef, > > > > > > As Al pointed out, there are numerous products from vendors such as > > > IBM/BEA/Oracle/RSA/Netegrity/Entrust/Baltimore Labs (RIP) etc > > > providing web-based authentication/authorisation in front of AD. > > > Since from a design point-of-view it's generally not a good idea to > > > stick AD too close to the Internet, often these solutions comprise > a > > > presentation tier, e.g. with IIS (using&n bsp; some sort of ISAPI > plugins) that th! > > > en hooks > > > into your business&n bsp;logic (e.g. middleware) or your data tier > (e.g. > > > LDAP/AD/SQL) ... if you want to look at this from an MS purist > > > perspective then I'd suggest having a look at n-Tier solutions > > > within the MSDN area. Although, this has a more developer emphasis > > > than you'll probably want, it gives a good insight into how > Internet > > > authentication works, particularly .NET as well as older products > > > such as Site Server/Commerce.. > > > > > > Try googling on Authorization Manager (AZMan) to give a good > > > example of how a & nbsp;role-based mana! gement approach (assuming > a > > > web t ier) with an AD backend would work..... Also look at ADAM as > > > an initial 'point' solution for Internet usag rather than AD alone. > > > > > > You also mentioned self-registration and this kicks off an entirely > > > different thread (in my mind anyway)... > > > > > > 1. What are you providing access to? > > > 2. Whom are you registering and for what ? > > > 3. What authentication mechanism do you wish to use > > > (username/password, certs, OTP). > > > 4. Do you need to provide some form of au thorisation once > authenticated > > > as well? What form&nb! sp;does this need to take? > > > &nb sp; > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Mylo > > > > > > if you need an initial > > > > > > Jef Kazimer wrote: > > > > > > >Al, > > > > > > > >I apologize, as I am going only on what little information I > have. > > > >I guess I was trying to do some pre-meeting recon work since I had > > > >seen it metioned here about 25mil internet users for some people. > > > >I had assumed there might be some scenario documentation for such > a thing. > > > > > > > >I will know more after the meeting of course, so I'll see if I&n > > > >bsp;can explain myself better.> > I understand dire ctory design > > > >for an enterprise, but have never done so for a internet instance > > > >that would have self registration. I suspect there are some > > > >different lessons learned from that scenario so was curious. > > > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > > > >Jef > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:31:33 -0400> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > > > >>[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Internet > > > >>Authentication Concepts: Pointers?> > That's not a lot to go on, > > > >>Jef. &n bsp;Can you give some more infor mation?& gt; > For > > > >>example,! these public internet sites? Are they web only? What > > > >>type> of authentication is needed? What were your plans for > > > >>authorization?> Are you planning to use something like SiteMinder > > > >>or Tivoli or ?? to> help you deal with authorization if using web > > > >>sites?> > Al> > On 4/26/06, Jef Kazimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > > > >>>> >> > Ok, here is something I'm just starting to research, and > I > > > >>thought maybe> > someone here has some pointers or a direction > > > >>they can steer me in.> >>&n bsp;>> >> > We are&nbs p;looking&nbs > > > >>p;at a potential consoli! dated directory/database to > > > >>contain>&nbs p;> user registrations (Self registration and > > > >>contain>possible bulk > > > >>load) for multiple> > public internet sites for products of our > > > >>company.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > I was wondering if there are any > > > >>published scenarios that addess this> > solution as > > > >> > > > >> > > > >a starting point for consideration. We are thinking of using a> > > > > >public AD forest as the potential repository, but I am curious if > > > >there ar e> > any lessons learned w hen designed& nbsp;such a > > > >scenario.> >&! gt; >> >> > > > > > Thanks,> >> >> >> > Jef> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >________________________________> > Upgrade for free to Windows > > > >Live Mail beta and you could win an African> > Safari Learn more> > [1]ا~m > > > >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > > > >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > > > >List archive: > > > >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > >----------------- > > > >-------------------------------------------------------> > > > > > > > > > ;No virus found in this incoming message. > > > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > >! Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database:&nbs p;268.5.1/326 - Release > Date: > > > >27/04/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > > > List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > > > List archive: > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > > > > > > > > Join the next generation of Hotmail and you could win a trip to > Africa > > Upgrade today > > > > > > > > Join the next generation of Hotmail and you could win the adventure > of > > a lifetime Learn More. > > > > > > > > Join the next generation of Hotmail and you could win a trip to > Africa > > Upgrade today > > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > > List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > > List archive: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > .+w֧B+v*rz Vryi˽箊 > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > List archive: http://www.mail- > archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ��V�r�y�&��-�����4���i�b��b��
