I need somebody to explain this to me like I am an idiot that I am. Marcus I completely understand what you saying your last post. I can not get past the concept that my "life's course" if you will, is predetermined. If that is the case, every choice I think I am making would have to be predetermined. Meaning, I'm not making a choice, I'm following suit. Meaning everything that is happening, has happened or will happen is exactly the way it is, was and will suppose to be. Takes a lot of responsibility off of one's shoulders. Almost too much. Just having a hard time buying into that .......... so I don't. At least not at this point in my life.
On Aug 2, 6:07 am, Rodger <[email protected]> wrote: > We come to know the true self by knowing no other. > > On Aug 2, 5:49 am, Marcus <[email protected]> wrote: > > > . > > > “Can the flying fragment deviate from its path of trajectory?” > > > No …………………….. the flying fragment displays a predetermined path, or > > trajectory. > > > The question is (given this illusion) is are we flying fragments of > > the whole. > > In my opinion I would say yes. Does that imply we follow > > predetermined paths I would again say yes. Free will is > > indicative to the illusion. Our blends of strengths and weakness > > predetermines our reactions to circumstance. These circumstance > > enable our behaviour patterns. > > I know it’s a real mind bender but :---- we journey predestine > > paths with defaults settings to suit. If you said “well I am going > > to live in a cave for the rest of my life” to avoid your predetermined > > path then even this is part of the predetermination. > > So look …….. if free will is also part of the illusion, then what > > ever you choose is destiny at play. The freedom from karma is only > > to see it for what it is. > > To accept and flow with nature. > > > This is why happiness and unhappiness ultimately are the same. This > > is why we can say “I am “ everything and nothing at the same > > time. > > This is how we come to know the true self. > > > Only then does inner peace fill your day ……………………….. a fragment of > > the divine. > > > . > > > On Aug 2, 11:26 am, Rodger <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Thank you,Marcus. > > > > "We observe this shifting...." > > > > The observation of this shifting is the shifting of this observer. > > > > "We have to accept the responsibility..." > > > > Can the observer accept what is not observed? > > > > Can the flying fragment deviate from its path of trajectory? > > > > On Aug 2, 3:33 am, Marcus <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > . > > > > > Thanks Rodger, > > > > > “that which has said 'our illusions'...evolves.” > > > > > Yes ….. defiantly. Everything manifest in this momentary illusion, > > > > shifts from a previous momentary illusion. We observe this shifting, > > > > apply purpose and label it as evolution. And rightly so. The > > > > illusion of Marcus had evolved. The illusion of Rodger has > > > > evolved. The time spans and rate of change are different. The sun > > > > flowers growing in my garden have blossomed and are now begining to > > > > die. This is physical law of growth and decay which binds the earth > > > > plains of man. This in mind. We must also accept that as humans we > > > > are not just physical beings. Inside each one of us (even > > > > Roomsearching) is a connection to a deeper, richer and infinite > > > > dimension. Very different to the physical earth plan, the deeper > > > > element of our illusions gives rise to things intangible, like love, > > > > beauty, anger, past, future, Poetry, philosophy, God and fraternity. > > > > These things are a daily experience for us all. Intangible, yet just > > > > as real to the individual as awareness itself. > > > > > We all dream, think, hope. Given that we ourselves create these > > > > experiences and then live them, we have to accept the responsibility > > > > of being. These illusions are where we live. The illusion of > > > > evolution is just as actual as the illusion of yesterday. > > > > > In opinion …………… Spiritual knowledge is uncovered when one simpley > > > > sees the truth of this apparent contradiction. We are everything > > > > that can exist within an illusion. We are it’s creator. Therefore > > > > solely responsible for our expriance of each moment. > > > > > The deeper side of our awareness wants to enjoy being human. We are > > > > driven by the urge to enjoy this moment. Yet many prefer to torture > > > > themselves and others by denying peace, beauty and love for themselves > > > > and others. They create their Hell then live in it, to use an old > > > > metaphor. > > > > > It’s all apparent parts of the whole, the whole knows what it’s doing > > > > even if we don’t. > > > > > Faith is a great strength ……………. > > > > > . > > > > > On Jul 30, 5:52 pm, Rodger <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Marcus, > > > > > whether it is consciousness,spirit,or bozo...that which has said 'our > > > > > illusions'...evolves.And,even though evolving,is never not that.(The > > > > > more things change the more they stay the same.)Or would you disagree > > > > > with that? > > > > > > On Jul 30, 9:51 am, Marcus <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > “what is society but evolving spirit...which is alone, naturally?” > > > > > > > But “spirit” as a universal non-dual unlimited consciousness has no > > > > > > evolution. It is. It’s our illusions of consciousness which shift, > > > > > > change, perhaps evolve. > > > > > > > I see us as a connection between the illusion of self and thee > > > > > > universal whole which is everything in unity. (Advaita) We can > > > > > > only > > > > > > surmise from these view-points of the self, and yet. In brief > > > > > > moments we can also see/feel the expanse of the whole. > > > > > > Metaphorically, We are the union of a angel and a beast. A > > > > > > supposed > > > > > > blend of two opposing realms of awareness. Each allegedly to teach > > > > > > the other some sort of lesson. These are old metaphors but none > > > > > > the > > > > > > less, very useful in trying to get your head around the human being > > > > > > concept. > > > > > > > Almost as if when the beast side of our being is the most robust and > > > > > > the spiritual side steps back and lets the beast take charge. But > > > > > > eventually the beast becomes broken and the spirit steps forward to > > > > > > lift and inspire the being and take charge of the beast. > > > > > > > The great and noble surrender of the ego …………………… or crucifixion > > > > > > of > > > > > > the old self, to make way for the new self. > > > > > > > As you see. These are not new ideas. > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 3:03 pm, Rodger <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Marcus.I see what you're saying. > > > > > > > Should 'spiritual'...or spirit...be thought of as > > > > > > > awareness,consciousness,brahman,the absolute,thought,or what have > > > > > > > you...even bozo...all knowledge is spiritual.One could say,spirit > > > > > > > can't be defined,does the defining...spirit can't be created,does > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > creating,etc..One is aware of spirit by means of being the aware > > > > > > > spirit...the spirit which is aware...on and on. > > > > > > > As far as society evolving...what is society but evolving > > > > > > > spirit...which is alone,naturally? > > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 8:36 am, Marcus <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > “might be called 'ordinary horse sense'?” > > > > > > > > > I feel sure “spiritual knowledge” is very basic to our > > > > > > > > being. It > > > > > > > > is ordinary horse sense. Its just that society has evolved in > > > > > > > > such a > > > > > > > > way that “ordinary horse sense” has been overlaid with a need > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > comply to the raining social order. Each generation is > > > > > > > > systematically groomed to conform and in doing so, we loose > > > > > > > > sight of > > > > > > > > our “ordinary horse sense” of spiritual knowledge. > > > > > > > > I am convinced that if left alone to evolve naturally, most > > > > > > > > humans > > > > > > > > would have a much greater spiritual knowledge. > > > > > > > > > This whole enlightenment gig is really just trying to undo the > > > > > > > > centuries of dogma and conditioning of the masses. > > > > > > > > > In truth ………… spiritual knowledge is more ordinary sense than > > > > > > > > capitalism, consumerism or religion. > > > > > > > > > We strive to return to our true nature …………………….. break > > > > > > > > free …….. > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 1:49 pm, Rodger <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Or do you think I am just showing off? > > > > > > > > > Yes or no? > > > > > > > > > Either way,would that be a form of spiritual knowledge? > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 7:46 am, Rodger <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > 'Only You' is an old song sung by a group called the > > > > > > > > > > Platters.From the > > > > > > > > > > late 50's I think.Maybe early 60's.Either way,could this be > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > definition of spiritual knowledge? > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 6:32 am, Rodger <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok...so only you is being asked.Will only you answer the > > > > > > > > > > > question?Only > > > > > > > > > > > you can keep it to a simple yes or no,if only you prefers. > > > > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 6:24 am, [email protected] wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is nobody else. There is only you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > God damn, RS you've really influenced me! > > > > > > > > > > > > : )) > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry from Vodafone > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rodger <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sender: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 04:12:43 > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Advaita-Zen<[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: 'Spiritual knowledge' > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the expression,'Use it or lose it' is spiritual > > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone else? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 29, 10:02 am, Rodger <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice,Marcus...very grand definition.And not saying it > > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > But,I'm wondering...what do you think...could > > > > > > > > > > > > > spiritual knowledge also > > ... > > read more »
