"like Aristotle's muddled claim that its "properties" are what "make something BE what it IS"
Are you sure you went to Harvard philosophy, Cheerskep? :-) On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:32 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In a message dated 11/2/08 12:33:46 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > "Cheerskep: Perhaps, for the purposes of this discussion: what notions > might > be associated with the notion "art" in your, or many persons, minds, "what > is > art?" might be understood as: "what notions might be associated with the > notion "art"." > > When people ask, "What is X?" they are asking one of two different kinds of > questions that can loosely be characterized with this phrasing: "What do > you > personally call X?" and "What is the actual entity that we are referring to > when > we say 'X'?" > > At the core of the notion behind the second kind of question is the > assumption that the alleged "referent" exists. > > Often the alleged referent is concrete and directly observable enough to > persuade us to accept the question as serviceably reasonable: "What's that > bright > object in the sky?" "What's that elaborate-looking machine over there in > the > corner?" "What's this lump under my skin here?" > > And sometimes both parties are aware the "entity" is notional: "What's your > idea of justice?" "What do you have in mind when you say 'aesthetic'?" > "What's your notion of a good vacation?" > > Trouble is, the form of those questions often morphs from "What's your idea > of justice?" to "What is justice?" A corollary form is, "Is X in fact a Y?" > > And the trouble with that form is, it tends to make the mind "reify" -- > assume the thing is a "real", non-mental entity. > > Thus what began as a request for a description of what someone has in mind > becomes a hunt for the assumed mind-independent entity: > > "What is sin, miracles, destiny, good luck, the "sacredness" of "holy" > ground, curses, God's grace..." > > Or: "What is evil, important, graceful, delicious, disgusting, essence, > beauty, freedom, the afterlife, heaven, hell, angels, the devil, tree > spirits, > ghosts, haunted, and more." > > So, no, I don't think we can assume that when every lister asks, "What is > art?" he can be understood as asking: "What notions might be associated > with the > notion "art"." > > I have to admit that in all my years on the forum, to this day the > liveliest > single thread was Bruce Attah's posting of the nine characteristics that, > he > said, were what made a work BE art (very like Aristotle's muddled claim > that > its "properties" are what "make something BE what it IS".) > > Attah would not accept he was merely listing his own personal preference > for > certain characteristics he wanted in works he would CALL art. He felt he > was > exposing a metaphysical "truth" -- discerning factual stuff about the > metaphysical category/quality of artness. > > Our formerly active lister Derek Allan also took the position that it > wasn't > simply that he was honorifically CALLING Mozart's 24th concerto "art" -- it > IS > art. Derek did not expose himself to the polemic demolition Attah > suffered > here; Derek would never give any reason whatever for his assertion that a > given work IS art. > > I do agree however, that a survey of what notions various people have in > mind > when they hear or use the word 'art' might have a mild -- but soon > diminishing -- interest. > > > > ************** > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. Search Now. > ( > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from > -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001> > )
