Even when the content is verifiable by the knowledge of what it
represents.
The aesthetic value it reflects is always a "personal" or group
judgement.
mando
On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:30 AM, Chris Miller wrote:
It's important to remember that Kivy, and all of the modern
philosophers that
he quotes, are interested in distinguishing the "fine arts" from
all the
others.
Kivy focuses on the notions of representation and content/form -
but there is
also the question of whether that content is representing anything
important.
Aristotle, for example, required that good dramatic poetry
represent people of
good character (within the limits, of course, of their social
status). While
Kant required that a good poem contain "spirit" in order to arouse
"aesthetic
ideas".
Kivy does not address the distinction between good content and the
rest,, but
obviously that distinction cannot be made until the content has been
comprehended -- and that is why issues of representation and
content/form are
so important.
Nor does Kivy elaborate on what makes for a good paraphrase -- he
just
assumes that we are all familiar with such things -- i.e. true
statements
about content.
Does Houdon's great statue of George Washington respresent the first
president of the United States? Yes it does -- and that is one of
the many
true statements of content that can be made about that statue -
that can
ultimately be used to argue why that content is more important
than, say, a
statue of a little boy in a fountain.
So I'm thinking that Kivy would not distinguish between subject and
content,
as William does -- but only betwen the verifiability of each
statement.
For example, the statement that "Houdon is representing Washington
as the idea
man of the Enlightenment" would make some sense, but still be open
to some
dispute.
Nor do I think Kivy could join Boris in saying that "Form is part
of content",
except in that content must be verified by form.
If you're not interested in the quality of verifiable content -- I
don't
think that you have a horse in the race that Kivy is judging.
(although --
I'm still waiting for him to bring his own horse to the contest)
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The basic distinction between subject and content is overlooked
here. To
say
that the subject is not in the poem but outside it seems to
conflate subject
and content as subject. It is more accurate, i think, to regard
subject as
being inside the poem and content outside it.
wc
Literary form and literary content are inseparable. Form is part
of the
content. (boris)
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