Those that do not create, look for the pleasure in ready made art start where artist ended, a reflective positive a,e ,or a negative one, or a mixture both.
ab On Dec 29, 2013, at 5:40 PM, saul ostrow wrote: > but what of those who do not create but receive > > > On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 4:28 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Then we shouldn't call the initial impression aesthetic until after >> it has rolled through the other stages? I suppose this lets the man who >> weeps with pleasure at both Crystal Chandeliers and una poco fa off >> the hook. He can always claim that when he thought it over he realized >> that Crystal Chandeliers was a mistake. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: saul ostrow <[email protected]> >> To: aesthetics-l <[email protected]> >> Cc: aesthetics-l <[email protected]> >> Sent: Sun, Dec 29, 2013 9:42 am >> Subject: Re: Aesthetic Ecstasy >> >> My point is there is a stimuli (an impression) the affect (consequence) >> of >> that is the discernment (the judgment) that the experience I have had >> is one I >> come to associate with something called the aesthetic ( in that it >> primarily >> stimulates/ appeals to my senses) - reflecting up this I determine if >> I have >> found it to be pleasurable or not and to what degree - >> >> The experience is a reflex (partially intuited and partially tacit) - >> the >> reflection and discernment learned - the determination subjective >> (taste) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 29, 2013, at 9:09 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> aesthetic effect is ecstasy,judgement follows, or the result of the >>> effect is judgement,or the judgement is ecstasy after the effect and >>> whatever follows after in the shape of reflection and and the forming >>> of an opinion is also called judgement? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: saul ostrow <[email protected]> >>> To: aesthetics-l <[email protected]> >>> Cc: aesthetics-l <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Sun, Dec 29, 2013 1:25 am >>> Subject: Re: Aesthetic Ecstasy >>> >>> Aesthetic effect - ecstasy >>> Aesthetic effect - judgement >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 28, 2013, at 9:38 PM, [email protected] wrote: >>>> >>>> Saul said that judgment followed the aesthetic ecstasy earlier in a >>>> different phrasing. I also think affect is a better word than >>>> experience and certainly than ecstasy, which has other connotations >>>> and is a surprising choice on Cheerskep's part.The aesthetic affect >>>> can vary from a what was that to a much longer and more complex event >>>> and I would suppose that both extremes would have their own kinds of >>>> reflection. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Cheerskep <[email protected]> >>>> To: aesthetics-l <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Sat, Dec 28, 2013 6:25 pm >>>> Subject: Re: Aesthetic Ecstasy >>>> >>>> In a message dated 12/28/13 4:08:06 PM, [email protected] writes: >>>> >>>> >>>> might aesthetic reflection work better - and allow the ecstasy be >>>>> understood as affect >>>>> >>>>> For some it certainly may. For me it doesn't, because I see three >>>>> >>>> different >>>> stages in the kind of aesthetic event I'm addressing. First, the >>>> raw-data >>>> encounter with the work -- seeing it, hearing it, reading it. Second, >>>> the >>>> almost immediate reaction -- the feeling I'm now calling aesthetic >>>> ecstasy. >>>> Third, any subsequent attempt to articulate what just happened, and >>>> >>> how >>> >>>> I felt, >>>> and (to the extent possible) why. I persist in feeling third stage >>>> amounts to my "reflections". They can go on for a long time after the >>>> ecstasy >>>> itself is over. If you go to GOOGLE and enter the two words >>>> "Reflections on" you >>>> see a large number of essays with titles that begin that way, and, >>>> >>> for >> >>> me, >>>> that period of reflection is, for me, unmistakably different from the >>>> ecstasy. (Burke's REFLECTIONS ON THE FRENCH REVOLUTION runs to 98,000 >>>> words. In >>>> literature-appreciation, there have been "Reflections on" given short >>>> stories >>>> that are longer than the story itself, and they are cerebral events, >>>> not the >>>> "feeling" itself.) >>>> >>>> But exactly what I've been claiming is that individual "words" do not >>>> "have" "meanings". That second stage -- the "ecstasy" -- is >>>> >>> emotional, >> >>> a >>>> "feeling", and I personally think of "reflections" as something >>>> collected in >>>> tranquility. If I burn my hand by encountering flame at the stove, I >>>> wouldn't think >>>> of the pain as a reflection on the flame. But that's my own personal >>>> word-use. If a different use works for someone else, there's no way I >>>> can call >>>> them "wrong". At most I might claim their use will occasion an >>>> >>> unwanted >>> >>>> notion >>>> in many readers (I often did that as an editor), but I could be wrong >>>> about >>>> that. >>>> >>> >> > > > -- > > [image: Inline image 1] > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/png which had a name of image.png]
