Interesting. Makes sense since you only want to send the PoE to the equipment in one direction.
I’ll try this tomorrow. In fact I may try a PoE brick to power followed by two dead bricks and then the switch - to try to isolate. Using non shielded cable after the powered brick. > On Apr 25, 2019, at 10:14 PM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: > > One side of the transformer has center taps that go to the powered pins. But > they don't have anything to do with the ethernet signal. You can think of it > as 4 separate isolation transformers in a common container. Actually they > are discrete transformers wound on toroid cores. One side has the power feed > taps. > > -----Original Message----- From: Matt Hoppes > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 8:00 PM > To: Chuck McCown > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain > > But would the gigabit PoE not jump the non powered pins? Or are all pins > “powered”? > >> On Apr 25, 2019, at 9:35 PM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Depends on the voltage. The windings have good insulation on them. And the >> inductance of the transformer might choke out some of the signal. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Matt Hoppes >> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 7:33 PM >> To: Chuck McCown >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain >> >> Interesting -- I assume one could test that by throwing a continuity >> tester on the pins. >> >> Wouldn't a high voltage FM on the line be enough to jump even an air gap >> like that? >> >>> On 4/25/19 9:32 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>> Generally the transformer is not connected from one side to the other. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Matt Hoppes >>> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 7:26 PM >>> To: Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain >>> >>> So a PoE injector without being plugged into the wall? I would have >>> thought the pins were soldered together inside? >>> >>>> On 4/25/19 9:30 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>>> Yes, a Poe injector will do that. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Apr 24, 2019, at 6:04 PM, Matt Hoppes >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Does something like an iso coupler for CAT5 exist? Like where you could >>>>> plug the cat five cable into it and he would isolate the cat five cable >>>>> coming out of it magnetically so that there was no physical contact? >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 24, 2019, at 2:51 PM, Bill Prince <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> This was in the days when we had to run a separate cable for timing (and >>>>>> those signals we single-ended; not differential). The timing cable ran >>>>>> parallel to the cat 5, and the APs were losing sync intermittently. The >>>>>> power/ground inside the CMM was going crazy to the tune of 8-12 volts or >>>>>> something like that. >>>>>> >>>>>> We added bigger grounds to the power supply and CMM, and when we got to >>>>>> 4 AWG it actually got worse. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> bp >>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/24/2019 11:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >>>>>>> Interesting, so possibly the issue is occurring through the >>>>>>> grounding/electoral system. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2019, at 1:47 PM, Bill Prince <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It wasn't actually on the cat5, it was on the ground (and indirectly >>>>>>>> the power supply). This when we were using the old-style Canopy timing >>>>>>>> box (CMM? not sure of the name any more). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We had to ground isolate the scope to prevent it from being infected >>>>>>>> as well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> bp >>>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 4/24/2019 10:31 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >>>>>>>>> How did you “look at it” on the CAT5? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2019, at 1:28 PM, Bill Prince <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Back when we were getting interference like this (around 12-13 years >>>>>>>>>> ago), the noise was actually intermod from a couple of nearby high >>>>>>>>>> power transmitters. We didn't see it until we were able to look at >>>>>>>>>> it with a high frequency oscilloscope. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It would come and go based on whether both of those transmitters >>>>>>>>>> were operating at the same time. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> bp >>>>>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 4/24/2019 9:36 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> If I take a volt meter and measure from ground wire/rack to earth >>>>>>>>>>> ground. Would I see voltage if the transmitter is getting in at any >>>>>>>>>>> significant amount? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2019, at 12:25 PM, Robert Andrews >>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> & if the noise is coming from the grounding point? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 04/24/2019 09:01 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you let shields float, they are a faraday shield. >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you ground one end of the shields, they are faraday plus >>>>>>>>>>>>> electrostatic shielding. >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you ground both ends of the shields they do all of that but >>>>>>>>>>>>> they also add magnetic shielding. >>>>>>>>>>>>> However grounding both ends can cause a ground loop. >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Matt Hoppes >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 9:22 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; dave >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fwd: CAT5. FM. And Rain >>>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you mean "moved switching closer to the cluster", what is a >>>>>>>>>>>>> "cluster"? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you saying you floated the copper shields at the base of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> tower >>>>>>>>>>>>> and didn't ground them? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/24/19 11:16 AM, dave wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have that T-shirt For sure.. I was on a FM tower that was only >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5kw combined over one 5/8 coax for years. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Started with FSK then Cambium gear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The things I noticed worse was the type of cable used. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> longest time we had used AL shielded type cable and eventually >>>>>>>>>>>>>> relocated our switching near the base of the cluster which >>>>>>>>>>>>>> helped for a while but after some time the AL shielding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> evaporated and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that type of cabling was barely good enough to get 10baseT out >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of it and still had CRCs >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We eventually moved to Superior Essex for everything on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tower and used clips,hangers and grommets to get it off the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tower leg. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let the copper shields float on the cables and never looked back. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have since moved completely off the tower last year but still >>>>>>>>>>>>>> didnt have any issues at that time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I did notice is that when we did move our switching and POE >>>>>>>>>>>>>> closer to the cluster inside a nema enclosure it cleared a bunch >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of issues on the cable for a long time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/20/19 10:06 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's also interesting is none of the stuff in the shack has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> negotiating issues -- so it doesn't seem to be the switch as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole getting swamped, but rather the CAT5 getting swamped >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going up the tower. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/20/19 9:58 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So moisture + rf = Ethernet interference. Just as originally >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stated. No standing waves. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is your cat5 in liquidtight? Have you played with grounding & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ungrounding the shields? How about taking a garden sprayer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and selectively wetting things? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Matt Hoppes <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Date:* April 20, 2019 at 7:52:12 AM MDT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* *Re: [AFMUG] CAT5. FM. And Rain* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes. Problem goes away. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2019, at 09:51, Chuck McCown <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you killed the ref when you are having the problem? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Might not be ref related. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 7:11 PM, Matt Hoppes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 19watts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/19/19 8:58 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What is the reflected power when you are having problems? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 6:41 PM, Matt Hoppes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My thoughts too. But the reflected power right now is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only 19watts out of 9,000. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 20:14, Chuck McCown <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My guess is that the FM station has a problem with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> antenna or transmission line. Moisture throws off >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impedance somewhere and you have a strong standing wave >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the transmission line. Probably a bad connector. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Matt Hoppes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking to the wisdom of the AF group on this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have some equipment on an FM tower. It’s a 9kw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> station around 150ft. We are at 250ft with two sectors >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a backhaul. Netonix switch in shelter. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing else on the tower. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally all is fine. When it rains or is very moist >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out (heavy heavy fog) we start having major Ethernet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> negotiation issues. The ports will go from 1Gig to 10F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes. Sometimes drop completely. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’ve got ferrite beads wrapped about 5 times top and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any further words of wisdom on what to try? I suspect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some odd grounding issue. But not sure how to track it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down or isolate it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
