In fairness, I can personally attest that lead acid batteries can and do explode. For example, if while jumping a car battery in cold weather, you draw a spark and ignite the hydrogen at the top of the cells. Not sure if AGM batteries do that, but flooded cells do, splattering everything nearby with sulfuric acid in the process.
I’ve never had a lithium ion battery explode or catch fire, but I seem to remember they are implicated in some aircraft fires. Either backup batteries for the aircraft electronics, or being carried as cargo. The company that makes DeWalt and Black&Decker power tools is supposedly looking at the non exploding technology. From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 11:55 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS that article manipulates numbers comparing 1 in number of people vs 1 in number of lithium batteries. I know zero people who have been lightning struck and a handful who have had lithium batteries catch fire You're far more likely to be struck by lightning (1 in 1,042,000) than ever see a battery flame up (1 in 10 million is the number experts tend to quote). On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 11:48 AM Ken Hohhof <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Get the non exploding type? https://www.cnet.com/news/the-lithium-ion-battery-that-didnt-explode/ From: AF <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of Adam Moffett Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 11:39 AM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS Interesting. Will check that out. On 12/20/2019 11:21 AM, TJ Trout wrote: You can float them dumb, but you *should* add a cell balancer which keeps each cell within range, they cost between $10-100 per site and aren't complicated to install, just goes to each terminal to read each cells voltage and keep it within range. On Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 5:59 AM <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: I am laboring under that same assumption. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 7:09 AM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS I didn't think you could put Lithium on a dumb float charger. I thought they needed special electronics. I'm happy to be educated if I'm wrong there. On 12/19/2019 8:06 PM, TJ Trout wrote: Whatever you do don't use lead acid lithium batteries of varying chemistry's are available second-hand extremely lightly-used for the exact same price per watt hour and they will last long enough to put them in your will On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 10:50 AM Adam Moffett <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Good point, I'll have to confirm that with them. On 12/19/2019 3:39 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I hope that Edgepoint doesn’t fry if the input is 1 or 2 volts above 54 VDC. If it sees the unregulated battery string voltage, normally you want an upper limit of 56 volts. 60 would be even better. From: AF mailto:[email protected] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:25 PM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS I could live with either AC or 48V, but 48V would be convenient. I'm looking at the Ubiquiti EdgePoint EP-S16. It takes a 54V DC input, has SFP+ uplink ports and twelve 802.3af/at ports. I don't actually expect to use every port, but in theory you could load that up to over 300W, and if I make sure to size the UPS for the switch then it's more idiot proof when people come along and add stuff. Ubiquiti has a 54V UPS module now, and you can put in 2+0 150W power supplies for 300W total, but it's an indoor case and operating temp only down to 0c. By the time I put that in a heated outdoor box it doesn't look too attractive anymore. I'm very familiar with the Traco and similar products. It would just be hard to beat $650 for a complete system using modular DIN components in a box. There's also something to be said for the simplicity of one part on the BOM. Of course I could use the smaller EdgePoint, but then I don't have the 10Gig uplink. I'm checking with Cyberpower on what happens in an overload condition...maybe the guy who adds one AP too many will realize his mistake very quickly. -Adam On 12/19/2019 3:05 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: You are looking at 48VDC output, or AC with a 48V battery string? Note that unit seems to have around 700 watt hours of batteries, not bad, but if you are running 300W or 600W of loads, it’s not going to give you much runtime without adding more batteries. We have a couple Alpha Micro350 systems at some small sites, which looks physically similar, but that’s AC output. We only use them at small sites because it’s not enough batteries for a large site. Normally we would put a Traco TSP BCM48 and a TSP360-148 or TSP600-148 in the same enclosure with our other DIN rail equipment and maybe a bunch of 100 Ah batteries in a separate battery box. Or maybe 4 x 22 Ah batteries in the same enclosure, if we don’t need a lot of runtime. From: AF mailto:[email protected] On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:33 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:[email protected] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor UPS hes building out UPS in a box On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 1:30 PM Adam Moffett <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Is there a particular item I should ask him about? On 12/19/2019 2:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote: talk to matt at CTI On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Adam Moffett <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/fttx/outdoor/cs150u48v3/ I tripped over this guy the other day. They're $650-700 retail and frankly, that's really not a bad price for a one-and-done 48V outdoor power system. <whining> ....but 150W is pretty small. I wish there was a 300W or 600W option. Why does it seem like every product I want is a white whale and that every vendor has something that's like 90% of the way there, but not quite perfect? </whining> -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com _____ -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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