I had one where Netflix was perfect, email was fine, browsing was fine but
Hulu would not work and we needed to fix that.
-----Original Message-----
From: Shayne Lebrun
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 11:51 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The Future
I always liked the opposite. Tell them that they're using all of their
bandwidth, and the answer is 'nobody is using the Internet! So-and-so is
just watching TV!'
-----Original Message-----
From: AF [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 1:22 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The Future
I love the my internet is not working but netflix is working....
Takes some folks a bit for that to soak in.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 11:11 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The Future
Yeah, Netflix ability to switch video quality / stream rate on the fly is
actually pretty awesome. I know we all used to bitch about Netflix, but now
I actually hold it up as the gold standard. Does Netflix work? OK, your
Internet works. If flavor of the week streaming service doesn't work as
good as Netflix, well, there you go.
I also like that Netflix traffic is usually identifiable because an rDNS
lookup on the IP address returns something.ntflxvideo.net rather than some
anonymous CDN or nothing at all. So if you are torching a customer's
traffic to tell him what is maxing out his connection, it takes just a few
seconds to say it's Netflix.
-----Original Message-----
From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2020 12:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The Future
A few years ago, I did some testing with Netflix. I found that it would
"function" down to just under 700 Kbps. For SD quality, about double that,
or 1.5 Mbps. For HD, you needed a bit more than double that, or about 3
Mbps.
I did some more recent tests with Prime. It would consume 5-10 Mbps if you
let it, but I found that it would "function" down to about 2 Mbps.
This function was roughly the same as Netflix SD quality.
I periodically throttle all of them, just to see what the effects will be.
To date, Netflix does the best, and is even able to switch CODECs mid-stream
most of the time. The rest, not so much.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 1/24/2020 9:37 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
That's basically what I tell all my RV friends that are on the road
complaining about streaming. Solves most of their problems at all
the weird places...
On 01/23/2020 01:17 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yeah, last I looked that's what they said the lowest quality needed.
A few years back I did some testing with various speeds, and I think
I got down to somewhere around 500k before Netflix would break. But
even then, the picture quality was getting pretty ugly.
But seriously... if Netflix defaulted to lower quality (not lowest,
but in the middle), and made you set it higher if you wanted, most
people would never know or care... and it'd save a lot of bandwidth.
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 3:14 PM Adam Moffett <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I'm pretty sure the lowest quality level on Netflix needs 0.7
mbps. If your rule ended up giving them 256k+512k then it would
have worked.
On 1/23/2020 4:10 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
Way back in the day, when powercode had the old type queue, we
built our basic one to buffer at 512 long enough to maintain a 2
hour sd stream at 256k with periodic 512k bucket refills. so
really it was 512k effectively. It may very vell be that
expectations of "standard" definition were different back then.
but I thought that was an actual resolution standard
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 2:58 PM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I don’t remember ever being able to stream Netflix on 256K.
1M maybe, and 1.5M still gives you decent SD. You’re going
to
need at least 2.5M though for HD. So that’s one part of the
answer is HD. Some streaming services, like DirecTV On
Demand,
don’t have adaptive video quality and want a minimum of 5M
to
stream. Another factor is “live” video, which is compressed
on-the-fly and probably not as efficiently as pre-recorded
content.
Of course, if the customer has more, video streams will
happily use it.
*From:* AF <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, January 23, 2020 2:29 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The Future
we are at the end of the wireless backhaul road. when I
started 15 or so years ago, we were just moving off a
handdful of random T1s to a bonded 6mb circuit backhauling
that was nothing. Now we have two gig circuits on separate
parts of our network, and we are a tiny WISP in podunk USA..
We dont put less than 1.2gbps backhauls in for core
backhauls
now. The existing technology for distance in a single unit
us
roughly 2gbps when trying to cover any distance of merit.
Sure
you can do more than that, you can cheat outside link
budgets
and ignore your rain region. But if youre talking about most
temperate region backhauls with legitimate reliability thats
the wall.
we keep poking a little more bits/hz out, but that not
really
new tech, its all dependent upon smaller and smaller path
budgets, that eventually wont be attainable. so you have to
start doing shorter shots, with more radios, more channel
size, etc. eventually you hit the point where its no longer
economically viable to keep throwing radio and lease costs
at
it and youll have to put glass in the dirt.
Duct is whats future proof, fiber is just the current best
long term option for transport. pending some breakthrough
tech, its the only real long term cost effective future
proofish option.
We will hit a wall on demand at some point in the near term
as
we run out of things to connect.
Can anybody answer why 256k used to be able to deliver a
decent SD netflix stream and now i need multiple mbps for
the
same thing? asking for a friend
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 1:40 PM Carl Peterson
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
"Elon started it as a project to raise money, yes.
Morgan
Stanley is up valuing it because they don't understand
technology. This project is not even close to spacex's
purpose for existing. If it disappeared it would not
have
any real effect on their overall mission."
This isn't really true. There was one primary driver.
1) You need to bring down the cost of launch
considerably
in order to expand the launch market to a size where
developing and maintaining a reusable rocket fleet makes
sense but you can't bring down the cost of launch till
you
have customers to fill the launch manifest and that
spool
up will take years. SpaceX thinks they have solved this
by
becoming their own customer for all their extra launch
capacity for the foreseeable future.
When they looked at #1 above they realized that there
was
a huge potential market there and even a a few % of the
global internet market could be a cash cow for years to
come.
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 9:13 PM Jason McKemie
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Elon started it as a project to raise money, yes.
Morgan Stanley is up valuing it because they don't
understand technology. This project is not even
close
to spacex's purpose for existing. If it disappeared
it
would not have any real effect on their overall
mission.
On Tuesday, January 21, 2020, Robert
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
um, no, Starlink is now becoming the primary
reason for the huge run-up in valuation for
SpaceX...
https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-future-multibillion-dollar-va
luation-starlink-internet-morgan-stanley-2019-9
On 1/21/20 4:15 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
The difference being that this is a side
project for one of the main businesses, not
their primary purpose. At best I don't think
this is going to be anything besides a
better
alternative to other satellite internet
options.
On Tuesday, January 21, 2020, Darin Steffl
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Guys, lots of misinformation here.
They are NO plans nor hints of
integrating
Starlink antennas into Tesla cars. It
may
happen but no one has hinted of this
happening. All Tesla's have 3G or 4G
modems already built-in to them along
with
WiFi. Updates are sent via WiFi first
and
after the fleet has received the
updates,
they eventually push it to cars via
cellular data that haven't updated via
WiFi.
Regarding B2B backhaul, I don't believe
you'll see this as an option anytime
soon
for WISP's or other ISP's. They're
targeting residential and small
businesses
as well as government contracts. The
cost
if they did offer B2B backhaul services
would likely be higher than fiber to
your
network. Please stop thinking this will
happen as I bet it will not.
They may offer a self install option but
they'll also have a contractor to
perform
most installs for a cost is my guess.
Maybe they'll send a self install kit
for
X price and if you can't get it working,
they'll schedule a contract install for
XX
price.
I'll also say that you should not doubt
Elon's passion to achieve great things.
I
have a Tesla and it's a work of art and
by
far the best vehicle I've ever driven.
99%
of people who have driven one also think
this. Tesla is succeeding, SpaceX is on
it's way there, The Boring Company is
half
done with their Vegas tunnel, and
Starlink
will likely be a viable competitor for us.
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 4:48 PM Ryan Ray
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Can you link that? What exactly were
they testing?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 2:36 PM
Robert
Andrews <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Somehow they passed a first
review
from US DOD... Can't be all
smoke
and mirrors in space...
On 01/21/2020 12:18 PM, Ryan Ray
wrote:
> I'm still very wary of this.
There seems to be a lot of
over-promising
> under delivering. In typical
Elon fashion, no details but the
world runs
> with it and puts out all these
data models that make it seem
like
the
> second coming of christ.
Customer CPE is a pizza box ufo
<$200 and they
> are starting in 2020, but
there's no pictures or details.
How is that
> even possible? We're buying
450b
at a more expensive cost and
there
> ain't no phased antenna with
motors in it.
>
> Then all you read online is
the
cult following of spaceslax who
takes a
> twitter post as gospel and
just
keeps perpetuating the same
tired
> information.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 10:02
AM
Bill Prince <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
>
> If the SpaceX Starlink
system works at 50% of what it's
hyped, it will
> become the future of rural
internet. Urban is still going
to be
> dominated (eventually) by
fiber for the foreseeable future.
Higher
> speed
> wireless will be very,
very
local.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 1/19/2020 6:29 PM, Matt
Hoppes wrote:
> > I don’t know why, but
this evening got me thinking
about
> broadband delivery over
the
past 30 years and the future of
broadband.
> >
> > First we had nothing,
then along came dial-up and that
was
> amazing and many companies
sprung up offering the service.
Giants
> like AOL and Prodigy.
> >
> > Then DSL and Cable came
along as well as wireless and
dial-up has
> all but died.
> >
> > Now DSL is basically
dead, cable and wireless have
gone
through
> several iterations and we
are seeing a push to fiber.
> >
> > What’s the possibility
in
the next 10 years cable and
wireless
> will be dead technologies
with fiber at the fore front?
Possibly.
> >
> > But then..... is fiber
really future proof? We are
talking about
> investing hundreds of
millions into fiber
infrastructure, because
> it’s “the future”. But is it?
> >
> > So far every technology
delivery mechanism to date has
become
> obsolete in as little as
6-10 years.
>
> --
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>
>
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