I know empirically the big wind turbine blades affect 5 GHz PMP links in cases 
where I could think they are well outside first Fresnel zone.  It can be pretty 
dramatic listening to the Cambium alignment tone (we typically use a little 
amplified speaker so even the person on the ground can hear it).

 

Maybe because the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Fresnel zones still contribute to the 
received signal (either adding or subtracting), it’s just a rule of thumb that 
if you have 0.6 or 1.0 Fresnel clearance you’re good to go.

 

But if they have a complex analysis method that’s probably best.

 

I don’t know how fast the AGC is on a licensed radio, but the turbine blades 
turn pretty slow.  Whoosh … whoosh … whoosh.

 

From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Eric Nielsen
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 7:00 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] freznel impact calculator

 

Yeah, the process is completely outside of the standard interference analysis 
database. I don’t recall the tools they use, but it performs a 3D analysis and 
calculates the fresnel clearances when plotting the turbines, factoring the hub 
height and blade length.

Pretty cool stuff.

 

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:56 PM Steve Jones <[email protected] 
<mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:

Im reaching out to them, they did a path study for a similar thing on one of 
our links, it was not on our dime for that link, so maybe we didnt get a full 
dataset and report back, we just got a yes/no on impact, but not enough detail 
to make a risk assessment. They told me they have access to the turbine 
database outside the normal link analysis.

 

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 6:47 PM Eric Nielsen <[email protected] 
<mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:

Comsearch does something called a “reverse geoplanner”. If you provide them 
with the turbine locations and the path details they’ll tell you the risk of 
fresnel obstruction.

They’re equipped to do this because they perform the microwave studies for wind 
farms.

 

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:43 PM Steve Jones <[email protected] 
<mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:

I have a 3 link path i need to turn up in 11ghz. we drove the path yesterday. 2 
legs are golden. one however is problematic, ive got two wind turbines that are 
in or just outside the fresnel. If it were one, id probably be inclined to risk 
the impact if there was just one turbine, but two is iffy without some good 
maths to support it.

The path is 5.5 miles

the first turbine is 3.64 mile

the second is about 4.69 miles

Fresnel is about 25' radius at that distance max if the calculator is right

the first turbine is maybe 100' from boresite

the second is probably 150'

These arent our normal turbines, these the the bad motherfucker turbines, so 
the blades are like a million feet long, actually IIRC theyre 224' on something 
like a 400' pedestal.

 

I need to pull the specs again on those and get better than google earth GPS 
coordinates on the potential end points, and some better actual heights 

 

that brings be to the question, how do i calculate a partial fresnel 
obstruction with a radius like the blade pattern.

 

I figure boresite view with a 50' circle would give me worst case fresnel, then 
i just draw the arc of the turbine path into that as an obtruction for each 
maybe just shade the polygon it create as a complete obstruction.

 

So once i have that info, what tool can i put it into to calculate the impact? 
everything we use just has an obstruction height. Would i be able to just take 
the distance from edge of fresnel into the furthest point of the polygon? Would 
I need to calculate more loss than that?

 

Im planning on sticking a 5ghz link up anyway pending licensing, so i assume i 
can just extrapolate the loss from that

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Eric Nielsen
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[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> 

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571-508-7409
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> 

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