Is this scenario based on Malaysian MH370? I do recall a lot of wild
speculation about that one.
The news definitely screws things up. But it's not feasible for all of
us to be responsible for reviewing all the primary sources. Not any
more than for all of us to be our own doctors, lawyers, and plumbers.
Sooner or later you have to accept an opinion from someone
else....whether that's Rachael Maddow at MSNBC or Steve Jones watching
live streams and reporting to AFMUG, you're taking someone else's word
for what happened because realistically you have to. Even if you look
at multiple secondary sources you're ultimately picking a version of
events you find personally find more credible.
The alternative is to believe nothing from anyone, but I'm not sure
where that would leave us as an electorate. Perhaps it would leave us
"vulnerable to a populist authoritarian demagogue".
-Adam
On 7/20/2020 5:53 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
Re: [AFMUG] OT - political A plane crashes in a field. There is raw
video footage of the burning ruble. There are no survivors. Truly a
very sad event. Everyone turns into their news network of choice.
All networks can agree that a plane has crashed, there are no
survivors, and there is no evidence to tell us why. However, that
story is good for about only 5-10 minutes of air time. The networks
must fuel that 24/7 news. They start bringing in the "experts".
Network A is pushing the narrative the plane was shoot down with a
missile. They bring on "expert" after "expert" explaining how this
could have happened. They show graphs and do cheesy cartoonish
re-enactments. They get leaked documents from unnamed sources saying
they heard chatter about a major event that was about to happen.
Network B is pushing mechanical error. They bring on "expert" after
"expert" explaining how this could have happened. They show graphs
and do cheesy cartoonish re-enactments. They get whistle-blower
documents from unnamed sources showing repair history of the plane.
Network C is pushing pilot error. They bring on "expert" after
"expert" explaining how this could have happened. They show graphs
and do cheesy cartoonish re-enactments. They get whistle-blower
documents from unnamed sources showing pilot's past history. They
interview the pilot's ex-girlfriend that broke up with him the day before.
This continues for days or weeks. It moves from the networks to
social media and blog sites. At the beginning all could agree a plane
crashed in a field and everyone died. But now after weeks of being
bombarded by multiple "expert" theories, people have taken sides.
2 months later the report comes out, the plane flew into a large flock
of birds that blew its engines. A one in a million stroke of bad luck
for the people on the plane. But it doesn't matter.
Some people will believe it was a missile and the government is
covering it up to protect (fill in the blank)
Some people will believe it was a mechanical error and the government
is covering it up to protect the plane builder
Some people will believe it was a suicidal pilot and the government is
covering it up to protect the airlines
Some people will believe that the whole thing was staged and never
happened
All of the above people will agree on one thing. If you don't agree
with them, your are an idiot.
All of the above people will continue to argue with each other for
months. They may disown family members that don't agree with them.
They may vandalize property of people that don't agree with them.
They may harm people that don't agree with them. But in their minds
they are right and the others a idiots, it is all acceptable.
There is a small amount of people that will realize a plane crash in a
field, everyone died and there was a 2 month investigation. They will
accept the results and move on with their lives.
--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:[email protected]
Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com <http://www.Myakka.com>
------
Monday, July 20, 2020, 5:06:47 PM, you wrote:
Most of the people saying "do your own research" are really just
googling for the answer they wanted and then reading blogs they
already agreed with. Watching live streams of current events as they
unfold would be on a whole other level, but I definitely do not have
time in my day for that. I don't know how you manage it. One problem
with that approach though is you can't cite any of it. I have to take
your word for what you saw and how you interpreted it, and that's not
actually different from choosing to believe in whatever any given news
agency presents me with.
I'd 95% agree with premise A, with the 5% being that there are always
grey areas. You could always imagine scenarios where we must choose
to infringe one person's rights over another's (The Trolley Problem,
or any of 10,000 variations). Definitely protesters blocking traffic
without a permit is not ok.
Covid or not, screaming in someone's face will instigate or escalate
violence. Yes that's not ok.
Destruction of property, also not ok.
But the conclusion: "That eliminates the vast majority of these
"protests"". Huh? There are still several orders of magnitude more
people marching than there are people damaging property, blocking
traffic, etc.
I won't go point by point in the characterization of what deputized
federal agents are or aren't doing in Portland.....I think you are
largely correct in what they're doing and that they have the authority
to do it. The question is whether they should be exercising that
authority in this time and place, especially when local authorities
are asking them not to. I'm not saying I have all the answers, but I
have trouble accepting this hardline interpretation.
On 7/20/2020 3:04 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
Watch the skateboards.
I dont watch news footage, or much released video of the happenings,
because its all edited for predetermined context. I watch live streams
as things happen from the ground.
A. stopping anyones freedom of movement without permit is not
peaceful, period. That makes every instance of blocking traffic non
peaceful. Your rights end where mine begin, mine end where yours
begin, there is no grey area, no overlap and nothing to discuss, it is
simply fact. I mention permit because as a civilized society we have
accepted the fact that we will occasionally give up some liberty for
sanctioned events following an agreed upon protocol, hence permits.
Whether that be a protest, fair, carnival, concert, road show.
B. Given the covid nonsense, screaming in someones face is in fact
violence (in illinois if spiddle hits, its aggravated battery right
now). Once again, not non violent.
C. Destruction/defacement of public property is not nonviolent. public
property belongs to all people, not just those who belive that they
are the only ones in "We the People". "street art" is not an
acceptable form of protest as it is defacement of public property.
That eliminates the vast majority of these "protests"
Now, back to the skateboards. If you watch livestreams, the skateboads
are new this riot season/election year. I couldnt figure out when this
season started where all the usual occupy mob was at. Then I realized
they brought about new tactics. The skateboards. They offer mobility,
they are an excellent cudgel weapon, they can be handled even when
jumping fences without losing transport. And best yet, there is no
surface that holds fingerprints well.
If you watch livestreams, or can find unedited footage (good luck with
that) youll see the skateboards present when the violence starts. In
almost all instances, the first broken window is a hooded gimp in the
periphery smashing a window and slinking off. The mob instinctively
follows. By design.
The first tagging, skateboard gimp tags and drops cans of paint, then
slinks off. (but you have to ask where the rest of the cans come from.
you dont bring spray paint to a "peaceful" protest.
Tow straps are part of a peaceful protest? I didnt realize, but theyre
all there ready to pull statues down, regardless of the history of the
statues.
CHAZ/CHOP/CHUMP was a summer of love, remember? remember the locals
loved it. totally peaceful. Except for the fact the locals were held
hostage and have actually filed lawsuit as such.... not peaceful, we
wont even discuss the murders, rapes, and theft.
When local governments dont protect their citizens from lawless
"protesters" infringing on their liberties, the federal government has
the responsibility to liberate the citizens under siege. Or the
citizen has the right to aptly address those who would infringe. You
dont get to decide the level of threat another person feels by your
choice to infringe. period, its not up for discussion. If you think it
is, you are the epitome of a fascist, that is not how liberty works.
As for these "jackboots" being unidentified, that is a lie, they are
identified as police, and nowhere in the constitution does it say the
government is mandated to tell you anything about what they are doing
to others. The use of "unmarked vehicles" is also a lie A. those
vehicles have license plates. B. Nowhere does it say transportation
must be identified as law enforcement. As a matter of fact existing
caselaw specifically states otherwise.
These "peaceful protesters" being snatched up and whisked away to
locations are having their minds wiped? nope. They know where they
went, who took them and why. Just because they give a media interview
stating otherwise doesnt make it so. If thatat is the case in isolated
incidents, that will ultimately be handled as an egregious violation
of rights... wanna bet CNN doesnt do any follow ups with these
"victims" though?
so to anyone calling this bullshit "peaceful" I say ROTFLMAO, because
there is no way to have any real discussion with anyone not operating
in reality.
Fact of the matter is, local and state government inept response and
their actively condoning the infringement of citizens personal
liberties by one group over another in an enlightened 2020 is what is
going to lead to bloodshed, much sooner than later. It wont have
anything to do with skin tone or who lays with who either.
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:52 AM Adam Moffett <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
People can disagree. If we can do it politely then we won't need
lent rules. Instead of laughing, tell me what the fault in my
reasoning is and explain yours. Or tell me what my incorrect fact is
with a citation showing what the correct fact is. We'd be in better
shape if we could do that without lashing out.
I feel like we (the country) can't even talk about this stuff anymore.
We've removed all nuance from discussing complex topics and reduced
it to meme politics. We express an opinion with a picture and a one
liner, and whether you agree or disagree puts you on one team or
another. Then we angrily shriek at each other about it. THAT
fatigues me more than ongoing protests ever could. No vote we can
make will change any of that, but maybe we can all change that part of
ourselves.
On 7/20/2020 11:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
ROTFLMAO
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:26 AM Adam Moffett <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Oh I don't know about that. If a bunch of angry people assemble
peacefully, it wouldn't take much for them to stop being peaceful.
There are accelerationists who absolutely want to start a civil war,
but they're a fringe movement and giving them too much credit is the
same mistake as giving "Antifa" too much credit. IMO.
On 7/20/2020 10:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
The BLM protestors are almost completely peaceful. It's groups like
boogaloo who are creating all the ruckus.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 7/20/2020 7:49 AM, [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>wrote:
Federal Hitler tactics are just a recent thing, these kids have been
going nuts for a couple of months.
I respect anyone’s right to PEACEFULLY assemble and to protest.
(Between 9:00 am and 5:00 pm M-F, holidays excluded, not on streets,
must provide porta potties)
I don’t respect defacing or harming anyone’s property, public or not.
Burning, occupying etc.
I really don’t know what their cause is. Other than against police
brutality. That is a good cause.
Will setting fire to the police building help their cause?
I wonder if you can buy those rubber bullet claymore mines they tested
out on Jackass?
Perhaps install a fire suppression system under the awning of your
store but plumb it up to pepper spray.
*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
Hitler tactics by Bunker Boy...there , I said it.
On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 2:49 PM <[email protected]> wrote:
Not trying to break lent, but I am lacking understanding.
What are the young white kids rioting about in Portland?
I am from Oregon, I remember protests in the 60s and 70s over Vietnam.
I also remember a line of State Police walking through a park downtown
and busting heads of those that did not clear out. Actually one of my
first telco bosses had been one of those State Bull Cops.
Are young white kids just aching for a chance at anarchy? I don’t get it.
Misbehaving while trying to wrap some kind of noble cause around you
is pretty childish.
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