Exactly Blue for –48. That was the standard for all Automatic Electric step switches. I think for Stromberg Carlson XY switches too. I have had this argument many times with people that want to use red for –48. That is just asking for trouble. But so is using black for –48.
From: George Skorup Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 2:18 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik) 820C/S most definitely tie DC plug + to chassis. Believe me. I smoked a RackInjector PDU board not paying attention. POE into those is floating. They'll basically take any 4pr scheme you throw at it. I have a couple 820S's running on AirFiber POE bricks. Yes, I still do red for +24, orange for +48 and blue for -48 at mixed sites. Just makes sense to me. A wise man will use a labeler too. Which I always do. [sarcasm emoji] On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 2:25 PM Mathew Howard <[email protected]> wrote: hmm... that's an interesting point about the direct DC input... I suppose it would be possible to have POE floating and the direct DC input tied to ground. Without thinking about it too much, it seems to me that would probably require some somewhat complicated circuitry that most likely isn't there though... On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: I can’t comment specifically on DC direct power to an Aviat radio. Most 802.3 POE powered radios are in fact floating and don’t care, but I’m not sure about the direct DC input. As far as does one radio dictate how you power everything else? No, but it does complicate things. I have a site that was built with Eltek -48 VDC because we had a Purewave WiMax basestation which required -48V DC direct power. We had several things like Mikrotik, Packetflux, Cambium and Ubiquiti that needed +24, so we have a Traco DC-DC converted that generates +24 from the -48 Actually it just generates 24 volts floating and we connect the – side to ground. Then we got rid of the Purewave and replaced it with Cambiumj 450i which needs +48 (or +56), so we added a Mean Well DC-DC converter to give us +48. So now we have -48, +24 and +48 in the same enclosure, each with their own bank of dual level DIN rail fuses for distribution. The DC-DC converters are relatively small DIN rail supplies, so all of this takes us less room than it sounds like. Actually we now feed this site with an 11 GHz PTP820S, and we used one of the DC powered POE injectors that can take + or – 24 or 48 volts, connected to the Eltek -48V. Could have also used a Cat6-POE-APC off the +48V rail. At some point we will probably switch to a +48V battery system since we don’t specifically need -48 anymore. But this should demonstrate that you can have all sorts of DC voltages at a site, some with the + side connected to ground, some with the – side connected to ground. You just need to keep your documentation straight. The most complicated thing is probably choosing wire colors. I use a lot of red/black zip cord so I’ve just accepted that red is + and black is – and you can’t make assumptions about which side is grounded. You could make a different decision and red is always hot and black is always ground. Or don’t use zip cord and buy lots of colors of wire. For awhile I was doing stuff like blue was -48 and red was +24 and yellow was +48 and orange was from the charger to the batteries and it got really confusing. From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Josh Baird Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 10:07 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik) I run WTM4200's off of +48VDC plants. Reach out to Ken Ruppel if you want/need more details. On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:05 AM Steve Jones <[email protected]> wrote: These are wtm4200. He told me the connector in the radio bonds + to ground at the radio. Could be wrong. I'm outside my wheelhouse anyway with this being our first direct dc radios. On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 10:00 AM Josh Baird <[email protected]> wrote: I should have said -- at least the WTM4200 and WTM4800, both of which I have used. On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:59 AM Josh Baird <[email protected]> wrote: Aviat radios don't bond + or - to the chassis. You can run them at -48VDC or +48VDC. On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:45 AM Steve Jones <[email protected]> wrote: So, like on these aviats, my contractor says they're -48v, but the connector in the radio bonds to ground. Does that mean my whole site has to have -48v or just radios powered by that particular psu? On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 8:59 AM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: Now if we could get the manufacturers to be less secretive about their POE schemes. They mostly want you to use their POE device and don’t want to document the pinouts or explain if it matters which side is referenced to ground. Mostly I find that using a Cat6-POE-APC with the jumpers as set at the factory and + and – hooked up per the markings works. Which is basically 802.3at. It works with the – side grounded, I suspect it would also work with the + side grounded, or neither. I was hesitant to use this on a PTP820 but it works fine. I don’t know why they make their POE scheme sound so mysterious. From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Josh Baird Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 8:44 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik) Yep - great explanation! On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 4:55 PM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: You have a power supply, say a 6 volt car battery. You connect a pair of headlights to it with two wires. All is well. Now you start building cars. And you are going to wire up the headlights. Someone points out that you can save some money on wiring by using the car chassis instead if one of the wires. You decide to run the positive connection from the battery to the headlights with wire and return the current via the car’s chassis. Now you have turned a 6 volt electrical system into a +6 volt system. If you reverse the battery and connect the + side to the chassis and run the wire from the negative post to the headlights , it will still work fine. The headlights don’t care. Now you have a -6 volt electrical system. The headlights don’t care but the radio does. Most radios expect the chassis to be negative and their power wire to be positive. You can “float” the radio by mounting it on an insulator and connecting its power wire to the car’s chases and the chassis of the radio to the negative wire going to the battery. A bit dangerous but I have had to do this at times. Oh, and the car is an early VW. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 20, 2020, at 2:19 PM, Steve Jones <[email protected]> wrote: I still cant comprehend any of this. I'm just dumb when it comes to it On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:51 PM <[email protected]> wrote: Yes. From: TJ Trout Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:48 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik) It's just a simple 48 to 12v converter to feed the mikrotik. I tested with a ict +48 supply and the 12v comes out fine, I'm 99% sure it will work on the wood bench, and about 90% sure it will work in a rack. If it was true -48 I would assume the + terminal would be bonded with chassis ground? On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 12:45 PM TJ Trout <[email protected]> wrote: I think some of my devices have the chassis ground bonded with the negative input terminals, I discovered this because I am running a telecom rectifier shelf designed for -48 on a +48 system because it's floating, but this causes the + output to not be fused, so I practiced arc welding once. Strange, didn't know the 1100 had dc input, but it looks floating though (per specs -48, 12-57 V) On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:40 PM <[email protected]> wrote: I don’t think I have ever seen a true +48 load. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 1:29 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik) Different situation, but I have several sites with 1100ahx4 powered with +48, even though Mikrotik says they take -48. I suspect you will find the same to be true on the CCR. Connect the – terminal to ground and the + terminal to +48, obviously you don’t want to apply reverse polarity by trying to connect +48 to the -48 terminal. I have some ccr1009 and ccr1036 but they are all AC powered, and I have no ccr1072, so I can’t answer your exact question. From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of TJ Trout Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 2:19 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> Subject: [AFMUG] -48 noob questions (mikrotik) So I have a handful of ccr1072's that I want to run on our +48v plant, mikrotik sells a '-48v telecom' power supply and they insist it's not compatible with +48v. I ordered one for testing and both +/- input terminals have no reference to chassis ground. I went ahead and applied +48v and the power supply fired up (no smoke) and when measuring from chassis ground to the input terminals I see no difference in potential. Before I shove this into a $3,000 router I wanted to see what I may be missing here? -------------------------------------------------------- -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ------------------------------------------------------------ -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
