Is there a new wtm version with better a2c performance? we have some 4100's
that we need to deploy with a2c and those I believe have the a2c losses
still?

On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 10:34 AM Mathew Howard <[email protected]> wrote:

> That's interesting, I didn't realize Aviat didn't support 4+0 with A2C...
> that's good to know.
>
> You're correct that Bridgewave is limited to 1024QAM in that
> configuration. I expected getting adjacent channels in 11ghz to be a
> problem, but it turned out that it actually wasn't here, so it's definitely
> worth looking into (at least if you're in a rural area).
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2021 at 12:05 PM Peter Kranz via AF <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> The Aviat radios do not support 4+0 like this, the only support up to 3+0
>> in a single radio. I.e. running A2C/A2C+ on a 11 or 18Ghz radio core for
>> 2+0, and running 70/80Ghz on another core. I believe this is do to a
>> limitation in their internally switching hardware only allowing up to 3
>> channels to be aggregated.
>>
>> Bridgewave does support this, but their implementation is more
>> restrictive in that the channels must be adjacent channels, and last I
>> checked they are limited to 1024QAM. In my market I have had trouble
>> getting the adjacent channels required to implement Bridgewave 4+0 links.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2021 6:54 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <[email protected]>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
>>
>>
>>
>> Do these radios also let you do 4+0 with A2C+XPIC in one radio, rather
>> than 2 radios and a combiner?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 5, 2021 7:14 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
>>
>>
>>
>> There's really not even a lot of good reasons to do it. If the Aviat
>> radios are able to run full power now using A2C, you can accomplish pretty
>> much the same that way (or using the equivalent feature with Bridgewave or
>> SIAE).
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 6:26 PM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Yep.
>>
>> One more thought – Part 101 is one of the best things we have, where we
>> are on identical footing with the big guys.  We file the exact same
>> paperwork, pay the same fees, get the same access, no sitting at the kids
>> table.  I’m not going to risk losing that.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 5, 2021 5:36 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
>>
>>
>>
>> My coordinator told me no. Not a maybe no, but a flat no. Had to do
>> primarily with the band edges. I'd love to do it, and the radios will do
>> it. But the FCC gets involved and not only are you probably paying a
>> massive fine, but you're losing substantial capacity you may be hinging
>> your business on. The gain isnt worth the risk. I didnt push the issue to
>> find out the specific rules prohibiting it, I represent a podunk wisp, the
>> fcc is bigger than us. I'll lose.
>>
>> It's like the question of whether selling meth is illegal if you dont get
>> caught.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2021, 12:10 PM Ryan Ray <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Tim,
>>
>>
>>
>> Does this rule have a reason? Or is it just a rule for rule's sake?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 4:47 AM Tim Hardy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> A note of caution: Some vendors have been pushing the notion that at 11
>> GHz, one can coordinate and license an 80 MHz bandwidth pair along with a
>> 40 MHz bandwidth pair separated by 60 MHz to in effect get a contiguous 120
>> MHz of spectrum. This is okay as long as you are transmitting two distinct
>> frequency pairs - one with 80 MHz, and the other with 40 MHz. In the US it
>> is NOT okay to unlock the radio to use ETSI 112 MHz bandwidth and transmit
>> a single pair. Vendors that are pushing this concept need to stop as it
>> violates at least two and possibly more FCC Rules. The licensee would be
>> taking the risk - not the vendor.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2021, at 3:54 PM, <[email protected]> <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> With the SIAE radio:
>>
>>     - 2+0 XPIC - minimal loss using the built-in OMT branching unit on
>> the order of 0.5 dB per end
>>
>>     - 2+0 ACCP - 3.5 dB loss per end using the built-in Hybrid branching
>> unit
>>
>> No TX power back-off required in either mode, nor do you need to back-off
>> the TX power when using POE.
>>
>>
>>
>> The ALFOPlus2XG radio has independent modem & RF, so there is flexibility
>> on how you could setup each radio. Each carrier can have its own channel
>> bandwidth & modulation.
>>
>>
>>
>> The branching units are field changeable and allow the ODU to bolt
>> directly to the back of the antenna.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> <Mail Attachment.jpeg>
>>
>>
>>
>> Joe Schraml
>>
>> VP Sales Operations & Marketing
>>
>> SIAE Microelettronica, Inc.
>>
>> +1 (408) 832-4884
>>
>> [email protected]
>>
>> www.siaemic.com
>>
>>
>>
>> >>> Mathew Howard <[email protected]> 1/4/2021 12:01 PM >>>
>>
>> Yeah, you can do 2 x 80mhz channels with a single core on some radios,
>> but there are some limitations. Depending on the radio, my understanding is
>> that they have to either be adjacent, or very near each other (definitely
>> within the same sub-band). It seems to me that some radios can even do two
>> different sizes of channels (like 1 80mhz + 1 40mhz), but I could be
>> remembering that wrong. If I understand it right, the Aviat radios have a
>> significant tx power hit when you activate that feature, which probably
>> makes it unusable in a lot of cases. We're doing that on a Bridgewave 11ghz
>> link (using 4x 80mhz on a dual core radio), and there's it works fine, with
>> only a minor performance hit on those radios. SIAE does have that feature
>> as well, but I don't remember if there was a significant performance hit or
>> not... I think they may have been the ones that could use two different
>> sizes of channels.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 1:51 PM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Probably, LinkPlanner is pretty smart.
>> I assume you don't want to use 2 antennas.
>> There are some licensed radios now that I think can do 2 x 80 MHz
>> channels in a single core, like from Aviat or SIAE maybe, I don't know if
>> this gets around the splitter cost and performance issues. I may have that
>> feature completely wrong, I haven't looked into it. There could also be a
>> performance hit by using the same xmt power amp for 160 MHz.
>> I also haven't checked out the full feature set of the new PTP850C, the
>> only thing I know it has is SFP+.
>>
>> ---- Original Message ----
>> From: "Adam Moffett" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: 1/4/2021 1:30:45 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
>>
>> Ok yeah, the Link Planner BOM shows some splitters. I wonder if Link
>> Planner already accounted for the additional losses when I selected "Co
>> Polar" on the dropdown.
>>
>>
>> On 1/4/2021 2:25 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> > I seem to remember that different channel different polarization is the
>> best, if your radio manufacturer charges for an XPIC license key. Next best
>> is XPIC. And that the problem with different channel same polarization is
>> you need a splitter which costs several dB of system gain. But that's from
>> memory, and mine is not so reliable.
>> >
>> > ---- Original Message ----
>> > From: "Adam Moffett" <[email protected]>
>> > Sent: 1/4/2021 1:16:26 PM
>> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]>
>> > Subject: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
>> >
>> > I'm looking at a path where the coordinator can get me two 50mhz XPIC
>> > channels, or two 80mhz H-Pol channels.
>> >
>> > I've never installed co-polar. Do you need a lot of extra junk to make
>> > that work?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
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