Has anyone ever used something like this? https://www.trackerlocating.com/ultra-trac-apl-acoustic-pipe-locator/
On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 11:47 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote: > I know there are sonar types of devices that can locate objects buried in > the sea floor or the bottom of a lake. So surely there is a way to adapt > that technology to find gas lines. You might have to have a big rubber > pad > and some acoustically conductive gel, like they use in ultrasounds, to do > it > but I keep fantasizing on starting this project. Even if I had to build a > trough of water that was in contact with the asphalt I would if I could > find > a fish finder type of thing that is known for being able to see below the > bottom. If you search, there are white papers about this kind of thing. > It > would work where GPR would not work. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Fabien > Sent: Friday, January 27, 2023 7:02 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience. > > There are times visual contact is just not practicable without extreme > expense. We have a lot of sandy seasonal high water table areas where > it's difficult to expose a line even 3ft deep, and anything deeper is > impossible without dewatering and shoring. Even with a vac truck you > just might catch a glimpse of the line before the walls cave in. Our > reality is, for buried phone, we check depth with our locator and plan > our bores to avoid it by 18" or more, we only daylight if we actually > need our line to cross it close. Gas, we pothole that 100% mainly > because of the risk and the potential of locate wire being not right > with the pipe which is fairly common. Luckily we only have gas in town > here. > > On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 2:27 PM <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I said it poorly. I was thinking more about the “visual contact” rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF > > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 2:23 PM > > To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <af@af.afmug.com> > > Cc: Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience. > > > > > > > > I pothole 100%. Crazy expensive not to. > > > > > > > > From: dmmoff...@gmail.com > > > > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 10:58 AM > > > > To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > > > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience. > > > > > > > > “theres law and then theres what guys do.” > > > > > > > > I had a boss who gave a long speech about how the law is written vs how > > the policy for enforcement is written vs how the court interprets it, > and > > how it can change at each step along the way. I heard the same speech > > every time I brought up that something he’s doing might be illegal. I > can > > summarize his long winded speech as, “It was legal if I got away with > it.” > > > > > > > > That may not be how we’d like things to be, but it’s true in a practical > > sense. > > > > > > > > The only time I saw a roofer on a house with a tied off safety harness > was > > Mike Holmes when he was on TV. The speed limit is 55mph unless > everybody > > else is going 65mph. And I suppose how much you pothole for buried > pipes > > becomes irrelevant if you didn’t hit any of them. > > > > > > > > -Adam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Steve Jones > > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 4:53 PM > > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience. > > > > > > > > theres law and then theres what guys do. here its 18 inches either side > of > > the outside of the mark. > > > > > > > > Reason why im anal about this is not liability, sure the guy who didnt > > pothole is liable, but that irrelevant to the fact that the water is > hit. > > if my pipe is 40 inches and an accurate utility locator is used, i want > it > > reading at 40 inches, not 30 or 24 cause the trace was sloppy. Everybody > > from start to finish should always do their jobs accurately, but operate > > under the assumption that the guy before and the guy after did not and > > will not > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 3:28 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> > > wrote: > > > > Here, you have to pothole until you see the gas line. I tell my guys > that > > if they have gone deeper and side to side to cover the whole 24” > protected > > zone then we are good to go. But technically the Utah law says you have > > to have “visual contact” with the thing you are crossing. > > > > > > > > From: Steve Jones > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 1:05 PM > > > > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience. > > > > > > > > the vertical concern is based in the real world. A guy will believe his > > locator and not pothole. > > > > > > > > by attached i mean a wrap or tape if its trench. you can get any pipe > you > > want to pay for. i dont know what plumbers can get embedded > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 8:56 AM Josh Luthman < > j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > > wrote: > > > > Ohio is 18 inches and some people tell me neighboring states are 24 > inches > > horizontally. > > > > > > > > >The bug concern is vertical > > > > > > > > That's what I'm talking about - if you're below or above the 3 inch > pipe, > > that's a 3 inch variance. > > > > > > > > >If I was paying id spec the trace be attached to the product > > > > > > > > Can you get tracer wire built onto plumbing pipe? > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 5:01 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > if youre paying to be able to trace, that trace should be exact, no > > tolerance on installation. My locator it most of the time dead on. The > > bug concern is vertical. If the pipe is sitting at 48" but the trace is > > coiled up to 24, some yahoo isnt gonna pothole and drill under it. > Nobody > > gives a shit about liability when their utility is blasted, they want > > their utility back on. A sloppy trace also causes cut tracers that dont > > get spliced. We are supposed to pothole to the side of the mark to avoid > > hitting the utility top on. > > > > If I was paying id spec the trace be attached to the product > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 3:25 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > > > wrote: > > > > How big of a pipe would it have to be for that to be a concern? I would > > think ~3 inches of variance is within the spec of the locator. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 4:20 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > stand over them when theyre putting it in to make sure they dont just > > randomly toss it in the open trench. you dont want it toning out at a > > different depth/horizontal because it coiled up. especially if theyre > > doing a wide trench excavation. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:39 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> > > wrote: > > > > All these seem to be UF > > > > https://www.plumbersstock.com/water-works/tracer-wire.html > > > > > > > > From: Carl Peterson > > > > Sent: Monday, January 9, 2023 10:18 AM > > > > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience. > > > > > > > > We specced safe-trace with 1800lb pullback strength for our current > > project and will likely makenthat the standard for anything drilled in > > moving forward. Not sure it is overkill. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> > > wrote: > > > > 14 gauge is rugged and will last. I think the gas company out here uses > > 14 gauge. 20 gauge on up is not terribly strong. UDOT recently changed > > their spec for the tracer molded into MD7 microduct from 20 gauge to 14 > > gauge. > > > > > > > > From: Josh Luthman > > > > Sent: Monday, January 9, 2023 9:37 AM > > > > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience. > > > > > > > > Don't you have some random copper laying around? Our fiber tracer wire > is > > 24 awg. Just place the conductive wire in the same hole as the > > water/sewer lines. The color is kind of pointless but I guess you could > > spend the money and follow the rules *shrug*. > > > > > > > > If the wire ends the locate ends. Why not just extend the wire with the > > new pipe? > > > > > > > > 14 gauge seems like way too big if you ask me, that's a lot of money > down > > that new sewer line. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:31 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) > > <li...@packetflux.com> wrote: > > > > I'm working on doing specs for a project (home) which will require > burying > > new water and sewer lines on the property. > > > > > > > > I'm tired of not being able to locate these after they're buried so I > plan > > on having the contractor bury some tracer wire along with the plumbing. > > > > > > > > I've learned that the best option for things like this is to either spec > > or provide exactly what I want buried. Otherwise you'll end up with > some > > inexperienced contractor which installs something which won't work. > > > > > > > > Apparently the choices for tracer wire are far more varied than I had > > expected. Insulation, metal type, gauge, color, and so on. > > > > > > > > It looks like 14AWG copper HMWPE might be what I'm looking for. But > there > > are other options as well. Does any of this work better or is less > (or > > more) likely to be damaged in a way which makes it untraceable? I'm > > assuming green and blue will be needed for sewer and water. > > > > > > > > I don't think the following will apply, but there is also the > possibility > > that at least one of the lines won't terminate at one end anywhere that > we > > can poke the wire up above the ground (tapping into existing line) I'm > > assuming that one can resolve this by laying a ground rod in the trench > > and terminating to that. > > > > > > > > Any other things I should watch for here? > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > ________________________________ > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Carl Peterson > > > > PORT NETWORKS > > > > 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 > > > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > > > (410) 637-3707 > > > > ________________________________ > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > ________________________________ > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > ________________________________ > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > AF@af.afmug.com > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- Carl Peterson *PORT NETWORKS* 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707
-- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
