They also use the entire e-band, so 5 GHz up and 5 GHz down just in that alone before adding in other bands.
-- Mike Hammett ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Moffett" <[email protected]> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2025 12:38:43 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile 5G and Fiber Home Internet Without digging too deep into FCC paperwork, just a quick googling, they seem to have 4.5ghz of bandwidth for satellite to user in each direction, and 5ghz each direction for satellite to ground station. Spectral efficiency is supposed to be around 4.5 bits/hz (again just a quick googling). Based on that it sounds like 96Gbps is an aggregate of all channels. Maybe more like 24Gbps one way. Whichever way they count it, it's definitely an upgrade from the original 10Gbps number that was being tossed around several years ago. I still say it's misleading for them to talk about the capacity per satellite rather than per a geographic area. If they're running data caps and overage charges now, I think that should be proof enough even for laymen. If they could deliver 96Gbps x thousands of satellites there would be no need for that. -Adam From: AF <[email protected]> on behalf of Mike Hammett <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2025 6:05 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile 5G and Fiber Home Internet https://www.starlink.com/public-files/starlinkProgressReport_2024.pdf Page 26 "96 Gbps per satellite" -- Mike Hammett ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Moffett" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, August 18, 2025 4:52:40 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile 5G and Fiber Home Internet Interesting. I said way back that people were over-estimating the capacity. Articles were saying 10Gig per satellite. I was saying 10Gig for a geographic area, with the maximum size of the area determined by the size of the beam coming from the satellite, and it might be a pretty big area. The bottom line is they have a fixed amount of Hz to work with, and just like any other wireless, they can't use the same channel in the same location no matter how smart they are. I don't know their actual antenna specs, but I see some graphics showing their 2 nd generation satellites are a 4.1m x 2.7m rectangular panel which faces down towards Earth. SpaceX says upgraded Starlink satellites have better bandwidth, beams, and more I'm sure that's artwork rather than a photo, but it looks like it has several panel antennas at roughly 1sq meter each. It has to have antennas for a connecting a ground station to the satellite up and down, as well as satellite to the user up and down. If I pretend there's 2sqm for downlink to the user, then maybe it's 30ish dBi and 5-ish degree beamwidth. Tan(2.5) x 350 miles makes an area on the ground 26 miles in diameter. So 10gig for a whole city, not 10gig per satellite. If they can use the entire surface area for satellite to user, then the beam is roughly 13 miles In diameter. I don't have real numbers on their antennas, but they only have so much geometry to work with. Their satellites pre-2023 were a lot smaller. So figure the beamwidth was wider in the past, and maybe capacity improves as the satellites age out and get replaced. Maybe we're seeing overage charges because they can only replace them at a certain rate. Since 10Gig was a marketing number to begin with, I assume that's before FEC and with a perfect SNR. Maybe in real life they get 1/2 to 2/3's of that. A lot of assumptions, yes, but I don't think they're unfair assumptions. -Adam From: AF <[email protected]> on behalf of Robert <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2025 11:32 AM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile 5G and Fiber Home Internet SpaceX has reached a limit somewhere.. They are resorting to pricing games and now putting in caps that they never had before... Either that or the cell phone greed gene is kicking in. I wonder if they recently hired any cell phone execs that brought the greed with them. We are seeing ex customers come crawling back after getting $600 overage bills... On 8/15/25 7:07 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: But they got $3M to do nothing in VA. $76M in TN https://broadbandbreakfast.com/amazon-and-spacex-undercut-competition-in-tennessee-bead-bidding/ On Fri, Aug 15, 2025 at 9:57 AM Ken Hohhof < [email protected] > wrote: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/08/starlink-tries-to-block-virginias-plan-to-bring-fiber-internet-to-residents/ From: AF < [email protected] > On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, August 15, 2025 8:53 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile 5G and Fiber Home Internet The real winner is SpaceX. 0 additional work for big fat checks. On Thu, Aug 14, 2025 at 5:05 PM Mike Hammett < [email protected] > wrote: T-Mobile and\or their affiliates won big in Louisiana. Well, still subject to official award. -- Mike Hammett ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck" < [email protected] > To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2025 3:54:22 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile 5G and Fiber Home Internet Who has been winning BEAD? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 14, 2025, at 2:27 PM, Mike Hammett < [email protected] > wrote: > > And Lumos. > And US Internet. > And they've been winning BEAD money. > And using SiFi. > And... > > > > > -- > Mike Hammett > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Josh Luthman" < [email protected] > > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2025 11:35:57 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] T-Mobile 5G and Fiber Home Internet > > > > Tmobile owns Metronet now. So they'll check the location for Metronet fiber. > That's the best lifespan of customer. If they can't get it with fiber, then > get cheap internet with 5G. > > Yes, Tmobile sold all of their wireline to Cogent and then bought Metronet > fiber. > > > On Thu, Aug 14, 2025 at 11:45 AM Ken Hohhof < [email protected] > wrote: > > > > > > > > Maybe I’m reading too much into this, but T-Mobile seems to be treating FWA > and fiber as two flavors of the same service. > > > > This might just let them use the same tools for qualification, signup, etc. > Or it might mean they view FWA as a precursor to fiber rollout. Sign up home > Internet customers using 5G, then where you have concentrations of customers, > roll out fiber? That way you avoid running out of celltower capacity, and you > capture the customers and keep them away from competitors. > > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
