In that order?
-- Mike Hammett ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Radabaugh" <[email protected]> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 2:08:38 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber You couldn’t possibly be suggesting that it would be a big win if the head of Commerce was able to say he clawed back $30B in Biden’s structure bill, claims he solved Internet for all, and kick 10% of the money to Elon and Jeff? Hang on, somebody from the FBI wants to talk to me. If you don’t hear from me in a while please send Lawyers, Guns, and Money. Mark On Aug 25, 2025, at 2:27 PM, Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: It was already available, but we wanted to give Elon and Jeff some money to thank them? From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jason McKemie Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 1:01 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber It seems to me a bit of a paradox that LEO both qualifies for BEAD funding, but doesn't disqualify areas that it already covers. On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 12:13 PM Ken Hohhof < [email protected] > wrote: I have no horse in the fiber race, but I’ve always accepted that IF infrastructure is going to be built with taxpayer money, it should be fiber. Or at least something that: 1) Will last forever or at least 20 years with minimal physical maintenance 2) Can be upgraded for higher bandwidths in the future without at most new electronics at the ends 3) Can be taken over by another operator if the initial one goes out of business So not intending to pick on LEO operators Starlink and Kuiper, but I will be interested to see the specifics for the states that are awarding them BEAD subsidies. What do they get for the money, and how long does it last? Free hardware and/or installation for customer? Subsidized monthly price? Reserved capacity? Launch more satellites? What if someone builds a new house in the area, do they get any benefit? They would if fiber passed the location. What if that customer moves and someone else buys the house, or what if it’s a rental house with a succession of tenants? Is it paid based on locations passed, or served? The devil, as they say, is in the details. If BEAD just subsidizes the customer’s cost for a limited period like 3-5 years, I don’t see how it’s equivalent to fiber. I mean, I miss ACP too, but BEAD is not intended to be ACP2. From: AF < [email protected] > On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 11:44 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber Like all subsidy programs - the support will never end, despite what the program says. In theory all of the OPEX support dollars are supposed to go away. We are still paying for ACAM: Woohoo: https://www.usac.org/high-cost/funds/acam/ Deploy at least 10/1 Mbps service to the number of eligible locations equal to at least 90 percent of fully funded locations by the end of year 9 (2025) Deploy at least 10/1 Mbps service to the number of eligible locations equal to at least 100 percent of fully funded locations, in addition to meeting final deployment obligations to deploy 25/3 Mbps and 4/1 Mbps by the end of year 10 (2026) Once we get done with BEAD there shouldn't be anything left that needs 100/20. Next up - “We need operational support money”, We need Gigabit everywhere!, We need to win the race to 7G (or maybe 9G for Nathan Stook). Corporate welfare, it’s an industry! Now you can get an even bigger piece of the taxpayer pie if you agree to give the dear leader a cut! I wonder how much AT&T is willing to pay to get monopoly carrier status back? Mark On Aug 25, 2025, at 12:04 PM, Josh Luthman < [email protected] > wrote: CAF and RDOF are similar. The support is 10 years. Build requirement is 5 years. Both are FCC programs and funded by USF. On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 10:34 AM Adam Moffett < [email protected] > wrote: Interesting. I've been in a private equity world since about 2017 , so I'm not up to date on these programs. I recall CAF funded areas in NY State, but they only talked about support for a certain number of years, and I was unclear what you're supposed to do after that. Does RDOF keep the subsidy going indefinitely? From: AF < [email protected] > on behalf of Josh Luthman < [email protected] > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 10:17 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber >If we, as a society, feel that those properties need broadband then there >would have to be something that functions more like USF, where those rural >properties are subsidized by a fee paid by the city dwellers. This is literally RDOF. On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 10:08 AM Adam Moffett < [email protected] > wrote: Fifteen thousand per house at 1 house per mile would be pretty optimistic for this area (NY State). The poles on those roads tend to be old, and the telco attached at a time when nobody was too concerned about the clearance rules. With make-ready on a rural road, you tend to get up to $50k/mile. You can go underground, but we have a bunch of challenges with that too. Regardless, it would be hard to make a viable business out of that scenario. It's all well and good if the government helps you get the capital, but opex is your problem. If we, as a society, feel that those properties need broadband then there would have to be something that functions more like USF, where those rural properties are subsidized by a fee paid by the city dwellers. Your description of old farms and farmhouses is very familiar. Family farms still exist, but often in the form of a corporation owned by the family. I think that's to avoid inheritance tax because the corporation doesn't die. Give your shares to the next generation when you retire rather than waiting until you die. The exception is dairy farms. With all the dairy subsidies we still have lots of dairy farms with 100 cows or less. Out of our >600,000 dairy cows in the state, the average herd size is 1200ish. One thing that I don't know if you experience in other states is you get the occasional "farm" around here that's actually just some millionaire's tax shelter. Some of the expenses for their palatial estate can become expenses for their struggling farm business. P.S.: One thing I do like about this group is nobody has ever asked me where NY keeps the cows with all the buildings around. -Adam From: AF < [email protected] > on behalf of Ken Hohhof < [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2025 12:13 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' < [email protected] > Subject: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber In some areas we serve where houses are a mile apart and the nearest town with a Walmart is 15 miles away, people tell me that when a homeowner dies (many are in their 70’s and 80’s), they won’t even list the house because nobody wants to live in the middle of nowhere. It will be abandoned, or torn down to and turned back into farmland. We no longer have small family farms with the farm family living in a house on the land, because you need to farm so many acres to make a profit. If a farmhouse is near a town, it may become a rental house, but not when it’s 10 miles from the nearest town or school. But I expect some company will be awarded $15K+ each to pass these houses with fiber. If it takes 4 years to complete, the house might not even be occupied by then, and in any case, the 80 year old occupant probably doesn’t care if they have gigabit Internet. So will fiber make these houses suddenly desirable, and work from home people will move there from the cities, towns and suburbs? Reviving these rural areas where the younger generation has moved away? I guess that’s the vision, I’m not sure I buy it. Well and septic and propane, quarter mile driveway to plow in winter, but blazing fast Internet, and you can have horses and chickens. Will they start building subdivisions out there once fiber is available? I’m not buying it. 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