Unions of today largely have nothing to do with the protections and reasons unions were started. That was legislated decades ago. They've got massive scope creep.
-- Mike Hammett ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jones" <[email protected]> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 3, 2025 11:47:02 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unions I always thought we could pretty easily do away with the need for unions in regard to pay. IRS already has all the financials, and im not condoning the IRS, i think it should be dismantled and the earth under it salted, but like a fresh inmate, at one point you gotta pick the beau that will treat you best. Pay should be scaled out, <15 an hour, your mandated a 50% profit share to your employees. under 25 an hour 25% and so on. This avoids mom and pops being put out of business by wage inflation, combat behemoths from getting superfly profits while their labor force suckles the government food stamp teat. Your place in the pecking order dictates your expense write offs. Id rather see, if we are going to rob businesses,its better to see the money going to the employees directly than to the IRS to hand to some NGO who wants to cut peruvian peckers off. On Mon, Nov 3, 2025 at 11:35 AM Robert < [email protected] > wrote: I read this as it could have happened just as easily at a straight bar. It's a reaction to unions. I grew up in the bay area. VERY anti union... Unions were a burden to progress. Good business didn't need unions. Not in SV. Too much upside available to workers without. Times change. People got more greedy. Work onus became huge. Rewards narrowed. Pensions evaporated.. Unions are a tool. If workers want to unionize there is usually one of two things happening... Either a union sees opportunity or workers are being taken advantage of or maybe both. w/o knowing what was actually going on at the bar I don't think judgement on either side is right. On 11/3/25 9:19 AM, [email protected] wrote: As a boomer from redneck land, I had the predictable reactions to “queers” growing up. Later, qrown and working in the telecom industry and about the time that Matthew Shepherd was killed, I moved to a large city and started a formal education. I became friends with people “other” than the rednecks I had known my entire life. I had a good friend that was a music major and musician that worked in the entertainment industry. We were both of the same religious persuasion, he explained to me that the arts is full of those types of people and they are some of the gentlest and talented souls on the planet. That stared a long paradigm shift for me. I came to a place where I consider queer folk as the knots in the knotty pine paneling. They add character to life. So, the Q now is pretty much a normal accepted element of society for me. The other letters…. I am kind with Dave Chapelle on those. Who knows, maybe I will learn something about them too before I croak. From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Monday, November 3, 2025 10:08 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unions The left tends to eat their own without concern of consequence, just like how they created the hepatitis outbreak in california with their plastic bag ban. I cant imagine being a niche service provider like a gay bar, already operating on slim margins and probably paying higher insurance premiums or suffering increased out of pocket repair costs for vandalism getting wind that the employees were "organizing" thats a death sentence for any niche market. Any service based business with protesters outside is almost always doomed unless they had a decent buffer in the account, which most niche services do not. Im not a fan of the alternative lifestyle folks, but having a place where they can congregate with like minded folks is critical to avoid becoming victims of abuse by the neanderthals on my side of the aisle. As is the outcome of most leftist ideology, all they did was harm their own in the name of "progress". Hopefuly somebody opens up a blue oyster for them sooner than later On Mon, Nov 3, 2025 at 11:01 AM < [email protected] > wrote: I found myself writing a post on a gay bar facebook page this morning. The bar had closed due to the normal reasons small businesses close. Someone else tried to give it a go this summer. Their employes tried to unionize. Union supporters started to picket. Sales trickled to a halt. So the owner first fired all the employees (and broke a labor law) reinstated them and closed. Big outrage amongst the gay left. Or maybe just the left (of all predilections and proclivities). Check out how this huge business with its thousands of employees looks like from the outside: 102 South 600 West Salt Lake City. Ill bet they don’t have 10 employees at the most. I wrote both to the owner and to the folks posting on the bars FB page that unless you have risked everything to start a small business you have no standing. Unless you have lived with the daily burden of meeting the next payroll you do not understand. If you think a super tiny business like this should be subject to the burdens of a union shop, you would be happier in a socialist country. Here is the article in the SL Trib this morning: As historic LGBTQ+ bar closes in SLC, owner and union organizers hope to find ‘a path forward’ By BROCK MARCHANT, SHEILA MCCANN and RICK EGAN The Salt Lake Tribune The SunTrapp, Salt Lake City's iconic LGBTQ+ gathering spot, "will be closing," the bar announced on Instagram Friday — weeks after a group of employees asked the owner to recognize their proposed union. About 50 people were gathered outside the bar at 102 S. 600 West shortly after the post was published Friday night. A sign on its door said it was closed for a private party. In September, SunTrapp Workers United (SWU) asked bar owner Mary Peterson to voluntarily recognize the proposed union by Oct. 10, according to a news release. Peterson told The Salt Lake Tribune in a text at the time that her business "is too small. The SunTrapp will not be unionizing." But in the statement posted Friday night, she said, "I want to be clear that I support the rights of all employees to choose whether they want to join a union." The business was "committed to engaging" in the next step, which would have been a secret ballot election conducted by the National Labor Relations Board, she said. "Unfortunately, because of the government shutdown, the National Labor Relations Board was closed and the election process was stopped." The bar has tried to stay open during the shutdown, she said, but "sadly, the financial impact of consistent protests has made it impossible for us to remain open. As such, we will be closing the SunTrapp on October 31st, 2025." Natalie Jankowski, a lead bartender at The SunTrapp and a member of the SWU organizing committee, said she and other union members have not felt Peterson supported their rights as they have worked to unionize with Communications Workers of America (CWA) Local 7765. Two hours after she and other SunTrapp workers delivered a letter — which stated that the majority of staff had signed union authorization cards — to Peterson on Sep. 26, Peterson fired them, Jankowski said. She added that Peterson quickly reversed the decision and reinstated them. Still, believing Peterson had committed several unfair labor practices, Jankowski said she and other pro-union staff members went on strike on Oct. 3. Since then, she said, staff members and their supporters have picketed in front of the bar every Friday and Saturday night. Meanwhile, others were hired to fill the positions of the staffers on strike, according to Jankowski. For the last two weeks, Jankowski added, the workers' lawyer went back and forth with Peterson's attorney, unsuccessfully requesting a meeting. "She closed down instead of talking with us," Jankowski said. "She had every opportunity to do that." Jankowski said she was with the group who had intended to picket Friday night when she learned the bar was closing. Around her, she said, some staff members shed tears. "It is profoundly sad," she said, "that our owner saw our love for this place as a threat." In her Instagram post, Peterson said she's "not certain" what a path forward looks like for SunTrapp, though she is hopeful for one. Under Utah law, a bar must notify the Utah Department of Alcoholic Beverage Services if the owners plan to close for more than 10 days, or it may forfeit its license. The bar owner can apply for an extension to be closed longer (for remodeling or after a fire, for example), but for the deadline to be extended, the DABS commissioners must approve the application. Derek Petersen, who said he was a former administrative assistant and bartender at SunTrapp and now helps with SWU, was with the crowd outside the bar Friday night. He had read Friday's Instagram post that said the bar was closing, he said, "instead of sitting down with the union and with queer workers. I think that's just a big disappointment for the queer community. They deserve and the workers deserve some kind of conversation." Others in the community have defended Peterson, who reopened the bar last year after a previous owner closed it. Peterson posted her own video statement on Facebook earlier this month, where she said the bar was in danger of closing. She acknowledged firing and then rehiring workers after receiving the SWU letter, saying she had been "ignorant" of the laws protecting unionization activities. On its Instagram account two weeks ago, SWU noted: "We do not want the bar to close. All we want is to collaborate with ownership on a better, safer Suntrapp!" Posts on the account detail the safety measures and workplace changes its members requested. "The reason we unionized was not to do a takeover, was not to ruin the bar, was not to close down the bar," Jankowski said. "We wanted to unionize to save and preserve the bar." The employees hope the bar reopens, she said. The SunTrapp is not just a second home to many LGBTQ+ people, but also to many staff members, she said, who often hang out there even when they are not working. "We want to ensure its longevity, and we want to create policies and rules and safety policies that really just secure the future of that bar," Jankowski had told the Tribune in September, "because all of the staff loves it so much, and so do the customers." -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
