We need them back on the street committing crime respctfully On Tue, Nov 4, 2025 at 9:23 AM castarritt <[email protected]> wrote:
> The mob never went away, they just moved into government and unions. > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2025 at 1:24 PM Steve Jones <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> hah, ken said dicks, kens a cusser now >> >> I do remember a history of unions documentary on PBs before PBS was >> trash. They talked about how you could tell who was a truck driver because >> many of them had burns between their fingers. they would light a >> cigar/cigarette and hold it in the fingers so if they did nod off 16 hours >> into the drive it would hopefully burn down to their skin before they >> veered off the road and wake them up. We definetly needed unions back then. >> We also need the mob back to take crime over, at least they were >> principled. >> >> but anyhow, kens a cusser >> >> On Mon, Nov 3, 2025 at 12:21 PM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> The right to collective bargaining was established in 1935 and at that >>> time it addressed a real problem. >>> >>> Big employers had all the power and could be real dicks. >>> >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States >>> >>> In the intervening 90 years, unions have become greedy and corrupt >>> despite union membership being at an all time low. >>> >>> So IMHO, the cure now is as bad as the disease. >>> >>> Not just the teamsters and longshoremen but teachers and police. >>> >>> Some of the skilled trades unions I think still serve a purpose with the >>> apprentice and journeyman programs and as a place to hire skilled workers. >>> >>> Kind of like the UK and their guilds. >>> >>> >>> >>> My first regular job out of college was at a big GTE Automatic Electric >>> (their equivalent of Western Electric) facility which was unionized. Every >>> summer the union would go on strike for 2 weeks, workers would get paid out >>> of the union strike fund and take a 2 week vacation. Meanwhile the company >>> always stockpiled production in advance of the strike. One year they >>> settled and there was no strike. Because of the excess inventory, the >>> company then had a 2 week layoff. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Robert >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 3, 2025 11:59 AM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unions >>> >>> >>> >>> Wow that sounds like socialism... From Steve? >>> >>> On 11/3/25 9:47 AM, Steve Jones wrote: >>> >>> I always thought we could pretty easily do away with the need for >>> unions in regard to pay. IRS already has all the financials, and im >>> not condoning the IRS, i think it should be dismantled and the earth under >>> it salted, but like a fresh inmate, at one point you gotta pick the beau >>> that will treat you best. Pay should be scaled out, <15 an hour, your >>> mandated a 50% profit share to your employees. under 25 an hour 25% and so >>> on. This avoids mom and pops being put out of business by wage inflation, >>> combat behemoths from getting superfly profits while their labor force >>> suckles the government food stamp teat. Your place in the pecking order >>> dictates your expense write offs. Id rather see, if we are going to rob >>> businesses,its better to see the money going to the employees directly than >>> to the IRS to hand to some NGO who wants to cut peruvian peckers off. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2025 at 11:35 AM Robert <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I read this as it could have happened just as easily at a straight >>> bar. It's a reaction to unions. I grew up in the bay area. VERY anti >>> union... Unions were a burden to progress. Good business didn't need >>> unions. Not in SV. Too much upside available to workers without. Times >>> change. People got more greedy. Work onus became huge. Rewards >>> narrowed. Pensions evaporated.. Unions are a tool. If workers want to >>> unionize there is usually one of two things happening... Either a union >>> sees opportunity or workers are being taken advantage of or maybe both. >>> w/o knowing what was actually going on at the bar I don't think judgement >>> on either side is right. >>> >>> On 11/3/25 9:19 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> As a boomer from redneck land, I had the predictable reactions to >>> “queers” growing up. Later, qrown and working in the telecom industry and >>> about the time that Matthew Shepherd was killed, I moved to a large city >>> and started a formal education. I became friends with people “other” than >>> the rednecks I had known my entire life. I had a good friend that was a >>> music major and musician that worked in the entertainment industry. We >>> were both of the same religious persuasion, he explained to me that the >>> arts is full of those types of people and they are some of the gentlest and >>> talented souls on the planet. That stared a long paradigm shift for me. I >>> came to a place where I consider queer folk as the knots in the knotty pine >>> paneling. They add character to life. So, the Q now is pretty much a >>> normal accepted element of society for me. The other letters…. I am kind >>> with Dave Chapelle on those. Who knows, maybe I will learn something about >>> them too before I croak. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* AF <[email protected]> <[email protected]> *On >>> Behalf Of *Steve Jones >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 3, 2025 10:08 AM >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> >>> <[email protected]> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unions >>> >>> >>> >>> The left tends to eat their own without concern of consequence, just >>> like how they created the hepatitis outbreak in california with their >>> plastic bag ban. >>> >>> I cant imagine being a niche service provider like a gay bar, already >>> operating on slim margins and probably paying higher insurance premiums or >>> suffering increased out of pocket repair costs for vandalism getting wind >>> that the employees were "organizing" thats a death sentence for any niche >>> market. Any service based business with protesters outside is almost always >>> doomed unless they had a decent buffer in the account, which most niche >>> services do not. >>> >>> Im not a fan of the alternative lifestyle folks, but having a place >>> where they can congregate with like minded folks is critical to avoid >>> becoming victims of abuse by the neanderthals on my side of the aisle. As >>> is the outcome of most leftist ideology, all they did was harm their own in >>> the name of "progress". >>> >>> Hopefuly somebody opens up a blue oyster for them sooner than later >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2025 at 11:01 AM <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I found myself writing a post on a gay bar facebook page this morning. >>> >>> The bar had closed due to the normal reasons small businesses close. >>> >>> Someone else tried to give it a go this summer. >>> >>> Their employes tried to unionize. Union supporters started to picket. >>> Sales trickled to a halt. So the owner first fired all the employees (and >>> broke a labor law) reinstated them and closed. >>> >>> >>> >>> Big outrage amongst the gay left. Or maybe just the left (of all >>> predilections and proclivities). >>> >>> >>> >>> Check out how this huge business with its thousands of employees looks >>> like from the outside: >>> >>> 102 South 600 West Salt Lake City. >>> >>> Ill bet they don’t have 10 employees at the most. >>> >>> >>> >>> I wrote both to the owner and to the folks posting on the bars FB page >>> that unless you have risked everything to start a small business you have >>> no standing. Unless you have lived with the daily burden of meeting the >>> next payroll you do not understand. If you think a super tiny business >>> like this should be subject to the burdens of a union shop, you would be >>> happier in a socialist country. >>> >>> >>> >>> Here is the article in the SL Trib this morning: >>> >>> >>> >>> As historic LGBTQ+ bar closes in SLC, owner and union organizers hope to >>> find ‘a path forward’ >>> >>> By BROCK MARCHANT, SHEILA MCCANN and RICK EGAN The Salt Lake Tribune >>> >>> The SunTrapp, Salt Lake City's iconic LGBTQ+ gathering spot, "will be >>> closing," the bar announced on Instagram Friday — weeks after a group of >>> employees asked the owner to recognize their proposed union. >>> >>> About 50 people were gathered outside the bar at 102 S. 600 West shortly >>> after the post was published Friday night. A sign on its door said it was >>> closed for a private party. >>> >>> In September, SunTrapp Workers United (SWU) asked bar owner Mary >>> Peterson to voluntarily recognize the proposed union by Oct. 10, according >>> to a news release. Peterson told The Salt Lake Tribune in a text at the >>> time that her business "is too small. The SunTrapp will not be unionizing." >>> >>> But in the statement posted Friday night, she said, "I want to be clear >>> that I support the rights of all employees to choose whether they want to >>> join a union." >>> >>> The business was "committed to engaging" in the next step, which would >>> have been a secret ballot election conducted by the National Labor >>> Relations Board, she said. "Unfortunately, because of the government >>> shutdown, the National Labor Relations Board was closed and the election >>> process was stopped." >>> >>> The bar has tried to stay open during the shutdown, she said, but >>> "sadly, the financial impact of consistent protests has made it impossible >>> for us to remain open. As such, we will be closing the SunTrapp on October >>> 31st, 2025." >>> >>> Natalie Jankowski, a lead bartender at The SunTrapp and a member of the >>> SWU organizing committee, said she and other union members have not felt >>> Peterson supported their rights as they have worked to unionize with >>> Communications Workers of America (CWA) Local 7765. >>> >>> Two hours after she and other SunTrapp workers delivered a letter — >>> which stated that the majority of staff had signed union authorization >>> cards — to Peterson on Sep. 26, Peterson fired them, Jankowski said. She >>> added that Peterson quickly reversed the decision and reinstated them. >>> >>> Still, believing Peterson had committed several unfair labor practices, >>> Jankowski said she and other pro-union staff members went on strike on Oct. >>> 3. >>> >>> Since then, she said, staff members and their supporters have picketed >>> in front of the bar every Friday and Saturday night. Meanwhile, others were >>> hired to fill the positions of the staffers on strike, according to >>> Jankowski. >>> >>> For the last two weeks, Jankowski added, the workers' lawyer went back >>> and forth with Peterson's attorney, unsuccessfully requesting a meeting. >>> >>> "She closed down instead of talking with us," Jankowski said. "She had >>> every opportunity to do that." >>> >>> Jankowski said she was with the group who had intended to picket Friday >>> night when she learned the bar was closing. Around her, she said, some >>> staff members shed tears. "It is profoundly sad," she said, "that our owner >>> saw our love for this place as a threat." >>> >>> In her Instagram post, Peterson said she's "not certain" what a path >>> forward looks like for SunTrapp, though she is hopeful for one. >>> >>> Under Utah law, a bar must notify the Utah Department of Alcoholic >>> Beverage Services if the owners plan to close for more than 10 days, or it >>> may forfeit its license. The bar owner can apply for an extension to be >>> closed longer (for remodeling or after a fire, for example), but for the >>> deadline to be extended, the DABS commissioners must approve the >>> application. >>> >>> Derek Petersen, who said he was a former administrative assistant and >>> bartender at SunTrapp and now helps with SWU, was with the crowd outside >>> the bar Friday night. He had read Friday's Instagram post that said the bar >>> was closing, he said, "instead of sitting down with the union and with >>> queer workers. I think that's just a big disappointment for the queer >>> community. They deserve and the workers deserve some kind of conversation." >>> >>> Others in the community have defended Peterson, who reopened the bar >>> last year after a previous owner closed it. Peterson posted her own video >>> statement on Facebook earlier this month, where she said the bar was in >>> danger of closing. She acknowledged firing and then rehiring workers after >>> receiving the SWU letter, saying she had been "ignorant" of the laws >>> protecting unionization activities. >>> >>> On its Instagram account two weeks ago, SWU noted: "We do not want the >>> bar to close. All we want is to collaborate with ownership on a better, >>> safer Suntrapp!" Posts on the account detail the safety measures and >>> workplace changes its members requested. >>> >>> "The reason we unionized was not to do a takeover, was not to ruin the >>> bar, was not to close down the bar," Jankowski said. "We wanted to unionize >>> to save and preserve the bar." >>> >>> The employees hope the bar reopens, she said. The SunTrapp is not just a >>> second home to many LGBTQ+ people, but also to many staff members, she >>> said, who often hang out there even when they are not working. >>> >>> "We want to ensure its longevity, and we want to create policies and >>> rules and safety policies that really just secure the future of that bar," >>> Jankowski had told the Tribune in September, "because all of the staff >>> loves it so much, and so do the customers." >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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