ha... yeah, it's simple enough to tell a ubnt radio you have a 1dbi antenna and crank it all the way up... and I'm sure it happens a lot, but they're actually only certified for 36db EIRP in 5.1, as far as I can tell - so ePMP is actually quite a bit better there.
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 8:43 PM, John Woodfield <[email protected]> wrote: > Legally anyway lol. > > > > > > John Woodfield Delmarva WiFi http://www.delmarvawifi.com cell (410) > 708-1937 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Mathew Howard" <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 9:39pm > To: "af" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium ePMP EIRP > > Yes, that is the case - it's only certified for 20dbm txpower due to the > OOBE requirements in 5.1, I'm not aware of anything that can actually do > 53db EIRP in 5150-5250 at this point. > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 7:55 PM, Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Unless it just wasn't certified at that high of Tx power at that >> particular channel due to OOBE requirements. I think there's a message in >> the notification drop down that says the Tx powers. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From: *"John Woodfield" <[email protected]> >> *To: *[email protected] >> *Sent: *Thursday, January 22, 2015 7:49:26 PM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium ePMP EIRP >> >> >> Sounds like Cambium needs to fix their firmware... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> John Woodfield Delmarva WiFi http://www.delmarvawifi.com cell (410) >> 708-1937 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Mike Hammett" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 8:46pm >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] the future of being an ISP >> >> Kind of. >> >> They have similar PtMP limitations. For PtP, 5.1 can go up to 30 dBm >> output power into a 23 dBi antenna. Then you start reducing 1 dBm for 1 >> dBi. 5.8 has no such antenna gain limit. 30 dBm into a 600 dBi antenna is >> just as fine. >> >> The 5250 - 5350 and 5470 - 5725 bands have a 30 dB EIRP no matter what >> happens. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From: *"John Woodfield" <[email protected]> >> *To: *[email protected] >> *Sent: *Thursday, January 22, 2015 7:43:42 PM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] the future of being an ISP >> >> It only appears to apply to the 5.8 band. Am I incorrect in my >> understanding that the 5.1 band has the same EIRP limitations as 5.8? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> John Woodfield Delmarva WiFi http://www.delmarvawifi.com cell (410) >> 708-1937 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "John Woodfield" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 12:13pm >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] the future of being an ISP >> >> No. I had this discussion last night off-list. Let me back up, you >> can't max it out with low-gain antennas. You can compensate the low TX >> power with higher gain antennas. Unfortunately they don't account for lower >> gain antennas or wire loss... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> John Woodfield Delmarva WiFi http://www.delmarvawifi.com cell (410) >> 708-1937 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Adam Moffett" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 12:06pm >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] the future of being an ISP >> >> Probably not. These are near future rules, not "right now" rules. >> >> Can you not max out the legal limits with ePMP? >> >> Is this why the power is so limited in the US ePMP gear and not UBNT? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> John Woodfield Delmarva WiFi http://www.delmarvawifi.com cell (410) >> 708-1937 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Mark Radabaugh" <[email protected]> <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 11:23am >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] the future of being an ISP >> >> The new rules don’t prohibit high power operation in 5.8, they limit >> the out of band emission into 5.4 to such extreme levels that it’s very >> difficult to get the equipment to pass certification. >> I wish I could recall exactly what the numbers are but the gist of it was >> that if you take a currently legal 5.8 radio with a high gain antenna and >> point it at a TDWR site, the out of band emissions inside the TDWR band can >> still be high enough to cause an issue. The result being that the FCC >> imposed much stricter limits on the OOB emissions thus making the equipment >> either much more expensive or requiring power reductions in the 5730-5850 >> section of the band. >> Mark >> >> On Jan 22, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Mathew Howard <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> Are you sure about that? I thought they were still operating under the >> old rules for 5.8ghz... everything in 5150-5250 already has to use the new >> rules (which MImosa does), but my understanding is that the new rules would >> basically limit 5.8ghz to what 5.1ghz is doing now, and on a Mimosa B5 >> (integrated) I can set the Tx power to 17db in 5.8ghz, but only 7db in >> 5.1ghz. >> >> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 9:35 AM, Rory Conaway <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> The Mimosa B5’s already meet the current spec that the FCC proposed. >>> The problem is that the rules were like using a hammer to break an egg. >>> >>> >>> >>> Rory >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof >>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 22, 2015 8:28 AM >>> >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] the future of being an ISP >>> >>> >>> >>> My worry would be that manufacturers decide the redesign effort, higher >>> prices, and lower performance makes the WISP market not worthwhile and they >>> just walk away and don’t make long range equipment for the 5 GHz band. And >>> decide the money is in small cell WiFi equipment, for the guys who wanted >>> the rules change. >>> >>> >>> >>> The other possible outcome is manufacturers sell equipment authorized >>> for low gain antennas but that can be operated illegally with high gain >>> antennas, leaving WISPs with the choice of going out of business or >>> operating illegally. Kind of a Walter White choice. >>> >>> >>> >>> It’s good to hear the manufacturers are developing a proposal that will >>> hopefully appease the FCC and FAA, I assume they are proposing something >>> they believe they can actually design, manufacture and sell to the WISP >>> market. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* John Woodfield <[email protected]> >>> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 22, 2015 8:53 AM >>> >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] the future of being an ISP >>> >>> >>> But will they enforce it with all the amateurs running around >>> throwing up UBNT stuff everywhere? Its gotten really bad around here. >>> Nobody even bothers to do spectrum analysis. Heck the county government >>> starting throwing up rocket dishes at full power blasting 40mhz channels >>> all over the place... >>> >>> >>> >>> John Woodfield Delmarva WiFi http://www.delmarvawifi.com cell (410) >>> 708-1937 >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "Adam Moffett" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 9:49am >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] the future of being an ISP >>> >>> >>> >>> Oh you missed that? Out of band emissions limits will be based on EIRP >>> instead of Tx power. So a linksys router with a 3db antenna probably >>> doesn't have to change anything, but anything with big >>> panels/dishes/sectors has to reduce their OOB emissions accordingly. The >>> end result is staying legal in 5ghz will require expensive filters added to >>> the equipment, or a reduction in tx power, or a reduction in antenna gain, >>> or a combination of the three. >>> >>> I think that's about the size of it. >>> >>> Ok What did I miss. New 5ghz rules??? >>> >>> >>> >>> John Woodfield Delmarva WiFi http://www.delmarvawifi.com cell (410) >>> 708-1937 >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 9:28am >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] the future of being an ISP >>> >>> So did all you folks stop worrying about the 5 GHz rules? They are >>> already >>> a done deal, the end of new equipment authorization is coming soon, to >>> be >>> followed by end of sale. >>> >>> Seems like this is as big an issue if not bigger than having to pay into >>> USF >>> which, let's face it, we just turn around and add as a below-the-line >>> charge >>> on customer bills. Customers have already proved they don't pay >>> attention >>> to below-the-line charges, plus all the competition would be doing it as >>> well. The main downside I see is if they increase the size of the CAF >>> fund >>> and our big competition gets even more subsidies to overbuild us. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rory Conaway >>> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 8:14 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] the future of being an ISP >>> >>> You should change it to, "when required by corrupt, geriatric, ignorant, >>> and >>> moronic government politicians". There is no question why Obama is >>> pushing >>> this, he is an ideological idiot with absolutely no management or >>> economic >>> skills. Add to that his feelings are hurt that the rest of the country >>> is >>> now seeing him for the egomaniac immature child that he is. Wheeler is >>> now >>> just trying to keep his job temporarily but I guarantee is trying to >>> find a >>> way out of this that preserves his lobbying business. The second he can >>> get out, preserve his reputation, and probably not let his boss destroy >>> the >>> country and his future/former clients any further economically than he >>> already has, including the 1200 new regulations taking effect now that >>> will >>> cost at least $200B this year alone, he's gone. >>> >>> All I know is I didn't go far enough with my Tom Wheeler article. Obama >>> blindsided me on his need to destroy another industry and make >>> government >>> bigger. >>> >>> Rory >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Af [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] On Behalf >>> Of Bill Prince >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 10:21 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] the future of being an ISP >>> >>> We have always had the disclaimer in our service agreement that it would >>> include taxes/surcharges if/when required by the government. Doesn't >>> make >>> it taste any better, but it covers the reality. >>> >>> bp >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> >>> On 1/21/2015 6:23 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote: >>> > On 1/21/15 18:07, Rory Conaway wrote: >>> >> I think we need to tell every single customer why the rates went up. >>> >> There is another election in 2 years. >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > Your rates aren't going up. The explanation to the customer is simple: >>> > "the total bill is higher because the government added a new tax. The >>> > pre-tax price of service hasn't changed. We're not making any money >>> > off this, if anything it adds more overhead to collect it. If you're >>> > unhappy with this tax then call/write your representatives in >>> congress." >>> > >>> > ~Seth >>> >>>
