Not a fix so much as a band-aid but you could shape incoming traffic to his
IP address from your edge to at least keep it off the network.

-Ty

On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Wireless Admin <[email protected]> wrote:

>         Ken,
>
> Your assessment of the problem is exactly correct.  I was going to compare
> it tor DoS as you did here.  I don’t see an easy fix for this.
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, April 27, 2015 10:00 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450SM sustain bucket throttle not working..
>
>
>
> I don’t think you’re understanding the situation that we are speculating
> is happening.
>
>
>
> He is using Cambium QoS.  However, he is seeing twice that amount of
> traffic destined to the customer, the SM is throwing half of it away (as it
> should), and as a result the customer’s service sucks.
>
>
>
> The problem is that the sender is not observing traditional congestion
> control, it is not backing off the sending rate when it sees high packet
> loss.
>
>
>
> That’s why I say it is similar to a DoS attack, someone sending far more
> traffic than the subscriber can receive.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* David Milholen <[email protected]>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 27, 2015 7:05 AM
>
> *To:* [email protected]
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450SM sustain bucket throttle not working..
>
>
>
> This is why we like setting the QOS at the subscriber. If I remember the
> cambium burst allocation ignores tcp and udp and work strictly on a token
> bit system.
> We do not receive these complaints. The only time I hear them is if we get
> overloaded at the backhaul link.
>
>  On 4/26/2015 8:58 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
>   I think George forgot the sarcasm emoticon.
>
>
>
> Also note that the problem here is the edge provider is sending more than
> the customer’s plan rate, ignoring TCP congestion control.  Not only does
> this consume Internet bandwidth over and above what the customer has
> subscribed to, it makes anything else the customer is trying to do on the
> Internet unusable because normal TCP is unusable with 50% packet loss.  It
> is not surprising the customer calls saying his Internet is slow.
>
>
>
> There’s a saying that comes to mind, involving a 5 pound bag.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Faisal Imtiaz <[email protected]>
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 26, 2015 8:37 PM
>
> *To:* [email protected]
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450SM sustain bucket throttle not working..
>
>
>
> I see that the net neutrality is going to be the next boogieman under the
> bed for WISP's from now on...
>
>
>
> Please, please, please, correct your understanding on Net-Neutrality...
>
>
>
> It allows for one to traffic shape any and all kinds of traffic, as long
> as :-
>
>    a) You declare your practice on your website.
>
>    b) You DON"T DO IT specific to A SPECIFIC Network.. i.e. all VOIP, or
> all Video, or ALL Streaming..
>
>      (applying a throttle on video to netflix while allowing Hulu would be
> considered a violation, but applying throttle to all types of video content
> is NOT !)
>
>
>
>
>
> :)
>
>
>
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
>
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: [email protected]
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting)" mailto:[email protected]
> <[email protected]>
>
> *To: *[email protected]
> *Sent: *Sunday, April 26, 2015 7:12:13 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 450SM sustain bucket throttle not working..
>
>
>
> So you'd be purposely slowing down or blocking legitimate traffic from an
> edge provider to the customer? Oh no, net neutrality violation!
>
> So when everyone starts with the 4k streaming and we're selling the
> customer 20Mbps, then we have to take on 40Mbps because of this!?
>
> On 4/26/2015 5:58 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
>   I could justify declaring such traffic an attack and blocking the
> source as malicious.
>
>
>
> *From:* George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) <[email protected]>
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 26, 2015 4:30 PM
>
> *To:* [email protected]
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450SM sustain bucket throttle not working..
>
>
>
> Yep, I see this all the time and Ken is exactly right. The Canopy QoS
> works exactly as designed, the AP is definitely not delivering more than
> the sustained rate, but is instead discarding the extra 50%. I've tested
> this situation thoroughly. Stick a MT simple queue in at the upstream
> router and the 2X rate traffic stops hitting the AP's ethernet interface,
> but it's still coming in at double the sustained rate farther upstream.
> There's no way around it except throwing bandwidth at it.
>
> This is CDN traffic. And when the customer thinks they can install one of
> those "internet download managers" to speed up their connection. The only
> thing it does is screw with TCP acks or window sizes or something which
> just puts more traffic on your transit just to be discarded at the
> congestion point (SM, queue, Procera, whatever). Gotta love it.
>
> You'd think with 70% of the internets being streaming video they'd think
> hmm.. maybe we can cut down on the peering congestion by NOT doing this
> crap. But no.
>
> On 4/26/2015 11:01 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
>   Sorry to answer a question with a question, but are you measuring at
> the SM, or at some upstream router?
>
>
>
> The reason I ask, is I have seen some CDN traffic that does not seem to
> follow traditional TCP congestion control.  It will send at twice the rate
> limit, causing 50% packet loss to its own traffic and everything else to
> that same subscriber.  Evidently some TCP geniuses have decided to use
> latency rather than packet loss as the indicator of congestion, and that
> the objective is goodput not throughput.  Works for last mile technologies
> like T1 and DSL with big buffers at the head end of the fixed speed serial
> connection, not so good with the type of rate limit queues we tend to use
> unless we can provision the queues with big buffers.
>
>
>
> Probably not your problem, but I thought I’d bring it up just in case.
>
>
>
> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser <[email protected]>
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 26, 2015 10:50 AM
>
> *To:* [email protected]
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] 450SM sustain bucket throttle not working..
>
>
>
> I have a 450 SM that is rate limited in the SM to 1500kbps download on the
> sustain side. I noticed last night that this customer was pulling a steady
> almost 3mbps download for several hours on end. How is this possible? Is
> there a problem with 13.2 firmware? Its a 3.65ghz SM.
>
>
>
> see attached.
>
>
>
>   Kurt Fankhauser
>
> Wavelinc Communications
>
> P.O. Box 126
>
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>
> http://www.wavelinc.com
>
> tel. 419-562-6405
>
> fax. 419-617-0110
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>

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