rohn spec installation in most cases is a particular concrete base size with the bottom of the legs something like 3 inches into a gravel like pea gravel.
Youre only issue down there would be rust and alligators On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Jaime Solorza <[email protected]> wrote: > Funny guy > > Jaime Solorza > On Jun 15, 2015 8:59 AM, "Mike Hammett" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Maybe that's something you older folks have to worry about? >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> >> Midwest Internet Exchange >> http://www.midwest-ix.com >> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> ------------------------------ >> *From: *"Jaime Solorza" <[email protected]> >> *To: *"Animal Farm" <[email protected]> >> *Sent: *Monday, June 15, 2015 9:57:25 AM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here? >> >> Better yet..use Rohn hinged tower base. Eaisier to erect >> >> Jaime Solorza >> On Jun 15, 2015 8:53 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I assume houses in your area do not have basements? >>> >>> Maybe we should put Zerk fittings on tower legs and then pump the bottom >>> section full of grease or foam. >>> >>> 45GSR would not have that problem, I wonder if you could use a 45GSR >>> bottom section and then regular 45G for the rest, assuming water will leak >>> out the joints. Probably cheaper to just use a base plate. >>> >>> >>> *From:* Paul McCall <[email protected]> >>> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2015 9:36 AM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here? >>> >>> >>> Scratching my head…. WHEN does it do that other than Freezing water, >>> which we never get? >>> >>> >>> >>> We do hit water at 2ft. to 2.5 ft of digging, so keeping out of water >>> would be a challenge J >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy >>> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2015 10:22 AM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here? >>> >>> >>> >>> Definitely put 6" of gravel in the bottom and stick the tower into >>> that.....then pour concrete. Here is an example of what happens when you >>> don't do that. >>> >>> >>> >>> [image: Inline image 2] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Lewis Bergman <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> The small hole, as long as it isn't plugged with spiders or something. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 8:03 AM, Paul McCall <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I heard this only recently on the list. I inherited this business in >>> 2000 and that’s just how we did it… legs in concrete and small hole right >>> above the concrete in each leg. >>> >>> >>> >>> We have built towers for 15 years and have yet to see any symptoms. We >>> do regular inspections on towers, but I will look closer at it from here >>> out. >>> >>> >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett >>> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2015 9:01 AM >>> >>> >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here? >>> >>> >>> >>> Water isn't supposed to stand in the legs. The legs are supposed to be >>> into a sand and gravel mix a few inches below where the concrete starts. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>> http://www.midwest-ix.com >>> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> *From: *"Lewis Bergman" <[email protected]> >>> *To: *[email protected] >>> *Sent: *Monday, June 15, 2015 7:57:49 AM >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here? >>> >>> That is correct. Water standing in your tower leg will end up rusting >>> the inside of the legs but that seems to be less an issue than splitting >>> after a freeze. The galv on a R25G type tower is not a very high quality as >>> they are price sensitive. When exposed to harsher conditions they will >>> rust. If you need a better, stronger tower consider the small Trylon solid >>> rod STG or Sabre light weight tubular towers like the 1200 or 1800 TLWD. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Paul McCall <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> We drill a tiny hole so water doesn’t build up in the leg. >>> >>> >>> >>> So I am clear though, you are saying the legs split when they fill up >>> with water AND then freeze? >>> >>> >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman >>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2015 11:32 PM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here? >>> >>> >>> >>> They burst just above ground or wherever the waterline is. Split is more >>> like it. Seen it several times. You have to make sure the legs can drain. >>> >>> On Jun 14, 2015 10:08 PM, "Paul McCall" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> How/where do they burst apart? >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Colin Stanners >>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2015 10:49 PM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here? >>> >>> >>> >>> I've seen a few tube towers - including a very nice one - bursting apart >>> due to the customers putting the base right into concrete and not leaving a >>> way for the water to drip out the bottom. >>> >>> On Jun 14, 2015 9:18 PM, "Adam Moffett" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> This might not be a concern in Florida or Texas, but if you do it that >>> way in the north, the legs may burst due to filling with water and then >>> freezing. >>> >>> Tushar, >>> >>> >>> >>> We buy Rohn 25G, with a landed cost of about $ 130 per section. Figure >>> $ 80 in concrete (probably a little high) and we stick 3 ft. of the first >>> section in the ground. We do the first piece (dig hole, pour cement) in >>> about 2 hours times 2 people (on average) then come back in a day after >>> cement hardens and we stack the other pieces (sometimes 20 ft. at a time, >>> sometimes 30 feet at a time, but figure another 3 hours on site times 2 >>> guys. That includes bracketing to the house. However, that part is a big >>> variable though because of home construction. You shouldn’t just attach to >>> an eve without beefing the eve up. Rohn also makes various size stand offs >>> that can go to the side of the house. >>> >>> >>> >>> So, about 10 hours of labor on averages, and probably $ 650 to $ 750 in >>> materials for a tower of 37 feet. If your highest attachment point is high >>> enough and solid, you can stack another 10 foot section >>> >>> >>> >>> There are some variables in there, but that should give you a decent >>> estimate. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] *On >>> Behalf Of *Tushar Patel >>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2015 6:09 PM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here? >>> >>> >>> >>> I guess we should also look at the tower install too. What is the rough >>> cost to install 40 feet, Rohn 25? >>> >>> Tushar >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jun 14, 2015, at 12:02 PM, Paul McCall <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Its mostly financial considerations… we do whatever we can (payments, >>> etc.) to push them that direction. It just makes the most sense. >>> >>> >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] *On >>> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof >>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2015 1:00 PM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here? >>> >>> >>> >>> I don’t understand why customers don’t blink an eye signing 2 year >>> contracts on cellphones and satellite service, but resist investing in a >>> Rohn tower which is an asset with about a 30 year life and also gives them >>> a place to mount things like an OTA TV antenna, security cameras, etc. Not >>> sure if they think it’s ugly, or just don’t make financial decisions for >>> the long term. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Paul McCall <[email protected]> >>> >>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2015 11:34 AM >>> >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here? >>> >>> >>> >>> I don’t know comparatively Tushar. We have found that 50mph winds for >>> an afternoon is all it takes to bend them. >>> >>> >>> >>> Being on the ocean, we also see them corrode rather quickly. 2 >>> different brands of poles and within 2 years they are almost unusual, parts >>> break trying to loosen them to lower them etc. They just don’t last and >>> then whose responsibility is it to replace them. The customer doesn’t want >>> to pay twice that’s for sure. The other problem is fine tuning… east/west >>> is OK, but up/down angle of a dish is a PIA. 320 CPEs are not as bad on a >>> pole for tuning, but the other issues really hurt us. We would rather try >>> talking the customer into a Rohn 25 40 feet or a bit more depending on >>> highest building attachment point so that we are not guyed. Even if we do >>> that at parts / labor cost, its much better long term, and easy to service >>> the radio. MOST of the time, we are able to sell that at a $ 500 REAL >>> profit, and a win-win for all >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] *On >>> Behalf Of *Tushar Patel >>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2015 9:43 AM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here? >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree it is hard to service. Most of the time we have two people to >>> install but one person to service, some time two. But how is it be >>> different in Florida than Texas? >>> >>> >>> >>> We get enough windstorms, we deal with pole bent etc too. >>> >>> Tushar >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jun 14, 2015, at 7:22 AM, Paul McCall <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Push up poles in Florida is a nightmare waiting to happen. We learned >>> that the hard way. Even with guy wires. And, a pain to service. Kinda >>> fits your description of NLOS customers below. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] *On >>> Behalf Of *Tushar Patel >>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 13, 2015 11:52 PM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here? >>> >>> >>> >>> Your point on sector efficiency is the reason we no longer like NLOS >>> installs. *Yes you may gain few customer with little less effort but in >>> long run it hurts.* We try to install 40 to 50 feet push-up poles and >>> get better line of sight. >>> >>> Tushar >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jun 13, 2015, at 10:44 PM, George Skorup <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> That's great that it works. I'm sure the Telrad stuff and other gear >>> like it is excellent. For me, it's too expensive. Every way I run the >>> numbers, I'm looking at 16-18 months for break-even. And that's not >>> including all of the extra stuff required for a large scale deployment. >>> >>> If I can't get 25-30 users per sector, the site is too small to deploy >>> it. If I'm running a bunch of NLOS customers (which we would since we're >>> about 55% 900MHz), lots of low modulation users really sucks for sector >>> capacity. And those NLOS shots, like Ken says, will they continue to work? >>> When the trees are soaked, covered in ice, etc., does it go to shit and I >>> have to listen to customers bitching because they were getting 20+Mbps and >>> now get <5Mbps? Which again is a hit on sector efficiency. >>> >>> On 6/13/2015 8:48 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >>> >>> One thing I experienced with 3.65 GHz WiMAX was an install that >>> turned out to work only because of signal bouncing off the tall tree >>> leaves, and stopped working in November when the leaves went away. We >>> should have been suspicious when aligning for best signal actually had the >>> CPE pointed up at about a 30 degree angle. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have seen something similar with 900 MHz. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* TJ Trout <[email protected]> >>> >>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 13, 2015 8:15 PM >>> >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here? >>> >>> >>> >>> How does LTE penetrate hills? This is the second or third "through a >>> hill" story in the last week? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 3:50 PM, Patrick Leary <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> RSRP, it is a measurement. It is a truer number than RSSI, which is only >>> an estimate (so I'm told). As Ken said, basically add 30 to get an idea of >>> the RSSI value. >>> >>> >>> >>> *Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID* >>> >>> On Jun 13, 2015 5:36 PM, Mathew Howard <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Yeah... something like that. Notice that is -108 CINR, not RSSI, like >>> the numbers we're all used to. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I think Patrick said to add 30 dB to Telrad signal numbers because they >>> were “per subcarrier” or something? >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Colin Stanners <[email protected]> >>> >>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 13, 2015 4:17 PM >>> >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Do you want to see this stuff here? >>> >>> >>> >>> Patrick, I haven't been following Telrad but that's too incredible - I >>> can't see how -108, which is below the noise floor for any reasonable >>> channel bandwidth (20mhz+?) could get any reasonable speed, much less >>> those. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 3:57 PM, Patrick Leary <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Should I resist sharing this sort of thing? If it's out of line, let >>> me know Chuck. >>> >>> <mime-attachment.png> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >>> Behalf Of Steve Discher >>> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 7:51 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: [Telrad] Another Telrad success story >>> >>> >>> >>> Not to flood the list with these but Zirkel is having great results. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> >>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer >>> viruses. >>> >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>> computer viruses. >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>> computer viruses. >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>> computer viruses. >>> >>> ************************************************************************************ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
