I’m going to chime in because I have had many conversations about this with 
attorneys in my former life as a corporate pilot when I would fly them all the 
place.   I have repented since then.

On the serious side, at the end of the day, consider how your actions of lack 
of action as an ISP look to a jury because that is what really matters, not the 
law per se.  Did you ignore all the notices and do nothing?  Probably won’t 
look good to a jury.  Did you email the customer each time, copy yourself, and 
tell them stop doing bad things or you will cut them off?  The latter is 
probably is considered a reasonable approach by a reasonably prudent person 
which you are right?

My two cents.

> On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:56 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Most of them are ones which are not available legally at low or no cost.   
> Game of thrones is properly the most common complaint.  
> 
> Unfortunately for them,  they don't seem to respond to my queries to change 
> the email address to one which is correct, instead of sending them to my 
> personal email address, which wouldn't be a problem except Google calls them 
> spam.
> 
> On Oct 14, 2015 10:26 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Maybe notices of claimed infringement have entered new territory recently, 
> but I’m pretty sure every one we ever received was accurate.  But I think 
> it’s been a couple years since we received one.
>  
> With the exception of a handful of cable network shows that are unavailable 
> for streaming, it’s so much easier now to just download it legally.  Plus 
> people want to stream instantly, not download via BT and watch later.  And 
> they want to watch on mobile devices and on their TV via their Roku or Apple 
> TV or streaming stick, not on their PC if they even have one.  I think the 
> few who are still pirating movies to store on their home media server are 
> using tech like VPNs and NNTP.
>  
> What is different about your customer bases, that you are still getting 
> enough DMCA notices to worry about?  Is this on 900 MHz networks that are too 
> slow for live streaming?  Or is this related to bootleg porn movies?
>  
>  
> From: Forrest Christian (List Account) <mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 12:12 PM
> To: af <mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Take down notices/Copyright infringement notices..
>  
> The LAW says that as a conduit we are not legally responsible for infingement 
> which occurs across our networks, as long as we meet some simple 
> requirements, none of which require us to take any action in these 
> notifications.
> 
> Yes,  anyone can be sued any time.   But the reality is that these email 
> notifications are defective on so many levels that taking any action based on 
> them other than forwarding them onto their apparent recipient with a 
> disclaimer attached could open you up to real liability.  For instance, 
> lending any validity to any claim made by a scammer pretending to be a 
> copyright owner could be perceived by your customer as aiding and abetting in 
> an illegal activity.
> 
> This discussion needs to be about legal requirements and how to protect 
> ourselves from claims.   I personally feel the piracy going on is wrong,  but 
> quite frankly, the emails are allegations, not proof of activities.   For 
> example, I've seen notices come in for ip addresses which aren't possible to 
> be  the source because they are from a block we've never had active on our 
> network.  How can I trust these as anything but what they are...  automated 
> detection of a possible infringement which regularly contain errors.   
> 
> On Oct 14, 2015 3:02 AM, "Faisal Imtiaz" <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Hi Forrest, 
>  
> All things aside..... the core basic boils down to the following:-
>  
> First question:    Do we agree that Sharing Copyright Content without the 
> consent of the Copyright owner is against the law ?
>  
> Second question: Do we have the resources, and the willingness to defend 
> ourselves when named in a lawsuit related to DCMA violation ?
>     (remember the law in the country allows anyone to be sued for anything, 
> once you are named, then you have to defend yourself. Yes, the charges can be 
> dismissed and thrown out of court, but you have to show up to court, and that 
> costs time and money...)
>  
> Depending how one answers the above two questions, the action required is 
> pretty simple...
>  
> If you answer the above two as YES, and NO.  Then simply contact your 
> customer and ask them remove the copyright content, which should be within 
> your AUP.
>  
> If you answer the above with NO and YES. Then simply discard the DCMA request.
>  
>  
> ---------------
> Are they going to come after you on every notice ?   no...but they reserve 
> the right to do so... 
> The real  question, in my opinion, is  does an IS/NSP want to take the 
> liability of inviting trouble to themselves or do they want to keep it at bay.
>  
> This discussion kind of reminds me of the saying.... what is the difference 
> between a recession and depression..... Recession is when you neighbor loses 
> his job, and a depression is when one looses his own job.
>  
> Of Course YMMV.
>  
> Regards
>  
>  
>  
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <tel:305%20663%205518%20x%20232>
> 
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <tel:%28305%29663-5518> Option 2 or Email: 
> [email protected]
>  
> From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> To: "af" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 11:08:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Take down notices/Copyright infringement notices..
> I'm going to reply here instead of picking on any reply. ..
> 
> As far as I can tell there is absolutely no requirement under the law to 
> forward these at all.  But please talk to a lawyer.
> 
> You have to have an AUP which provides for termination of repeat infringers, 
> but it doesn't say that you have to terminate repeat alleged infringers.
> 
> You need to decide whether you feel forwarding these on are a service you 
> want to provide to your customers or not.   I would guess you'd likely have 
> more liability risk from one of your customers suing you for not passing 
> these on (after they are sued themselves) than from the copyright holders 
> which don't seem to have a leg to stand on in making a service provider 
> forward these.
> 
> I'd also be very careful when passing these on to avoid making a judgement or 
> giving advice. 
> 
> Note that the above only applies to Internet connectivity and not to 
> something like hosting as an example, which has different rules.
> 
> Again,  I'm not a lawyer so the advice above may be wrong, but it is based on 
> various discussions over the years which ended up coming to this conclusion.
> 
> On Oct 13, 2015 11:06 AM, "Peter Kranz" <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Is there any legal requirement for an ISP to forward these notices to their 
> customers?
> 
>  
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 <tel:510-868-1614%20x100>
> Mobile: 510-207-0000 <tel:510-207-0000>
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>  
> 


Steve Discher
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
ISP Supplies Office: (855) 947-7776 / Fax: (866) 585-2175 / Direct: (979) 
314-4431
10770 State Hwy. 30, Suite 200 College Station, TX 77845
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