Oh, I know I "can" do alot, until some politician says I cant. and thats all in flux.In a granular review I cant treat limelignt any different than any other CDN, ever. so in this particular scenario there is already a risk. we wont know until after november what the "open internet" even is, and its up for debate for every four year until its no longer an executive branch decision (ie equivalent to free cellphone votes) eventually it will be clear, but right now, in this instance, its so grey, its illegal
On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:17 PM, Josh Reynolds <[email protected]> wrote: > Slight correction, you can virtually do whatever you want, you just > can't really block "legal" things, and have to make a good excuse for > "reasonable network management" if you do. > > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:15 PM, Josh Reynolds <[email protected]> > wrote: > > "limited viability of procera boxes in the open internet era" > > > > You are terribly misinformed. > > > > You can do whatever you want, you just have to put it in some fine > > print somewhere. You also can't discriminate and limit a specific > > service provider. For instance, you can't shape netflix and not hulu, > > but if you wanted to limit each subscriber to "6Mbps Steaming Video", > > there's no problem with that. > > > > Procera boxes are INCREDIBLY useful, and not just for traffic shaping. > > They also make excellent CGNAT boxes, can help substantially with > > DoS/DDoS detection and DoS assistance mechanisms, and give you > > excellent DPI into subscriber usage. Knowing what's in use on your > > network per subscriber is also substantially helpful when trying to > > help a customer with an issue. > > > > support: "You're using all of your bandwidth" > > > > customer: "No I'm not, the kids are in bed and we're not using the > > wifi" (they all call it "the wifi" it seems like) > > > > support: "I see 15Mbps of Steam updates going on right now" > > > > customer: "BRB lemmie shut of my son's computer" > > > > *waits for customer speedtest* > > > > customer: "Hey that looks great, thank you VERY MUCH!" > > > > support: "No problem sir/maam. Glad we could help!" > > > > On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 10:44 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm > > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> sounded to me like this is a single IP (tcp/udp) connection saturation > >> scenario, without a serious L7 filter in play its gonna do what its > gonna > >> do. Powercode for example (historically, not sure about now without > procera) > >> only applied the cap on new ip connections, established maintained > whatever > >> it was originally. so if you started an unbroken stream at a 12mb burst, > >> that stream always hung out at 12mb, if your sustained was 3mb, new > streams > >> were limited to 3mb aggregate, but the 12mb stream prevailed as long as > it > >> was never considered "new". even when powercode was useful with the > >> throttling controls, before they threw away their primary benefit in the > >> bandwidth control area to sell their soul to procera with the real time > >> throttles they took away. with the limited viability of procera boxes > in the > >> open internet era, I can see where this would be a cluster f**k post 12k > >> investment. > >> > >> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:44 PM, Josh Reynolds <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > >>> The policer at the network edge can be much more aggressive than a > >>> "policer" on an embedded customer network device, and this prevents > >>> that "15Mbps for a 900MHz customer" bandwidth from transitioning > >>> across your backhauls / backbone... per customer. > >>> > >>> Procera and other similar solutions can help, yes. > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > How does it eliminate the problem, unless you use something like a > >>> > Procera > >>> > to selectively apply policing to the CDN stream, leaving the customer > >>> > some > >>> > bandwidth for other traffic? > >>> > > >>> > From: Josh Reynolds > >>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 7:22 PM > >>> > To: [email protected] > >>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Shaping/policing at the head end eliminates this problem, and clears > up > >>> > your > >>> > backbone. > >>> > > >>> > On Jul 12, 2016 7:06 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> >> > >>> >> When this happens it basically wipes out that customer’s Internet > >>> >> except > >>> >> for the CDN download, no matter where you do the rate limiting. > >>> >> Customer of > >>> >> course assumes their ISP just sucks. With a lot of education, you > can > >>> >> convince most of them it is actually an aggressive application > hogging > >>> >> their > >>> >> entire pipe and pushing all the other applications aside. So I have > >>> >> customers that whenever their VPN to work stops working, they yell > >>> >> upstairs > >>> >> at their kid didn’t I tell you to do your Xbox downloads after I go > to > >>> >> bed? > >>> >> > >>> >> One view is this isn’t a problem, customer uses bad application, > feels > >>> >> pain, learns not to do that. But everyone tells them it is always > the > >>> >> ISP’s > >>> >> fault. And people with fat pipes like 50 or 100 Mbps cable Internet > >>> >> probably don’t experience this problem, which reinforces the idea > that > >>> >> it’s > >>> >> the ISP’s fault. > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> From: Darin Steffl > >>> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:42 PM > >>> >> To: [email protected] > >>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CDN overload > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> Why aren't you rate limiting at the core closer to your upstream? > Keep > >>> >> the > >>> >> traffic off your last mile and wireless backhaul network if you can > >>> >> help it. > >>> >> > >>> >> Works much better to throttle at the core instead of CPE. > >>> >> > >>> >> Sent from my smartphone. Please excuse any typos. > >>> >> > >>> >> On Jul 12, 2016 5:13 PM, "George Skorup" <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> >>> > >>> >>> I have had it with these CDNs sending more traffic than the last > mile > >>> >>> can > >>> >>> handle. Got a customer at 1.5Mbps on 900 FSK and they're sending to > >>> >>> her at > >>> >>> 15Mbps. Of course the AP reports RF downlink overloaded. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your > team as > >> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. > -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
