The fiberstore CWDM stuff is stupid cheap and just works. It's passive after all. I haven't used any of their DWDM equipment.
On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <[email protected]> wrote: > There are some excellent tutorials on this topic. > > Fiberstore has a very nice collection of them... > > http://www.fs.com/wdm-networking-cid-9.html > > Start with the tutorial on basics first and then build on it with others. > > http://www.fs.com/do-you-know-all-these-terminologies-of-wdm-technology-aid-474.html > > > Here is another nice set of tutorials, clearly written.. > http://www.fiber-optic-tutorial.com/category/network-solutions/wdm-optical-network/cwdm-dwdm-mux-demux > > ** The only difference conversationally between an "Active" vs "Passive" > CWDM/DWDM gear is as to who is doing the 'Standard Color' to "CWDM/DWDM" > optical conversions. > This is what consumes/requires external power. (aka, media converter > packaging) > > if you take a media converter and a passive mux/demux put it into one box, > that now becomes an active solution > if you take the media converter out, as a separate box, then the mux/demux is > considered to be a passive solution. > > If the gear on both sides is under your control, then you can skip the media > converters and just put in the matching colored optics in your gear on both > sides > Otherwise you deploy a media converter to convert between the colored optics > to standard optics... both in context of Ethernet as well as TDM). > > In regards to distance and ring topology......there is no issue, just how you > design the fiber path... aka fiber light link budget and optic's receive > sensitivity.. just like RSSI on a Fixed Wireless link.. There are standard > figures you can use for link loss, each panel appox 1 to 1.5db, (e.g. if the > TX is 1-4dbm, and Rx sensitivity is 15dbm, you have approx 12-15db margin... > using two muxes each with a 4.5db insertion loss, gives you 3-5db for other > losses......but if your mux has an insertion loss of 6db then you will need > to look at longer range optics, (higher tx power and higher rx sensitivity, > resulting in more expensive optics). > > >>Any particular vendors of the passive MUX, colored optics etc that you prefer >>and have worked well? > I have been happy and comfortable in working with the FiberStore (fs.com) > There are other vendors which others have worked with. > > To me, after everything has clicked together in my understanding.... I now > look at a passive mux in the same manner I would look at a Spool of Ethernet > cable.. > i.e. look at the specs, and the product, the cost, the name of the mfg. makes > little difference other then consistency in delivery and standing behind the > delivered product for the first 30/60 days. > >> It sounds like the costs are mainly the electronics to take the colored >> paths and "convert" them back to normal wavelength if I'm not >> missing something... > > Yep, bingo you are starting to understand it... > > > And most important, don't forget to buy a Light Meter, it does not have to be > anything fancy even a cheap one ($50) is good enough for deployment purposes, > since you can get relative information from it. > > Regards. > > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet & Telecom > 7266 SW 48 Street > Miami, FL 33155 > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: [email protected] > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Paul Stewart" <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 2:07:01 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM Gear > >> Thanks very much - much appreciate this ... >> >> Optical stuff has always been a "weak area" for me ... worked around them for >> years but 'spoiled' that we added X, Y, and Z per vendor recommendations >> along >> with a web interface and things just worked ;) >> >> My comments re: colored optics though were very specific to what I consider >> an >> "active" solution. A solution where we wouldn't have to put the colored >> optics >> specifically into switches on each side for example - realizing that the >> optics >> in the "solution" do the actual work .. I'm seen some passive systems where >> you >> have to put colored optics into your network gear for example. Those systems >> were pretty cool though in the sense where you didn't have to power them at >> all >> - but that's not what we want to accomplish here .. a number of these fibers >> we >> don't "own" both ends for example. Using an 'active' solution we can jump >> into >> the middle of the fiber no problem but for handoff to the network itself we >> need "standard" optics in place. >> >> For distance, this two locations with two paths so a ring topology .... one >> path >> is 1.1KM and the other path is approximately 3.2KM in length (geographic >> diversity between locations, separate cable entranceways, separate risers >> etc) >> so nice short run. Today we are just using 10KM single mode optics but >> burning >> fibers at a rapid rate .... >> >> Any particular vendors of the passive MUX, colored optics etc that you prefer >> and have worked well? It sounds like the costs are mainly the electronics to >> take the colored paths and "convert" them back to normal wavelength if I'm >> not >> missing something... >> >> Again - thanks ... appreciate this and really like the "build your own" >> approach >> ... with savings expected it makes it easier to look at sparing etc too >> >> Paul >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz >> Sent: August 14, 2016 1:04 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM Gear >> >> I just want to drill down, for the sake of an in-depth conversation, not just >> for you but for others who are lurking as well... >> >> see my answers inline below:- >> >> Faisal Imtiaz >> Snappy Internet & Telecom >> 7266 SW 48 Street >> Miami, FL 33155 >> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >> >> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: [email protected] >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Paul Stewart" <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 12:32:57 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM Gear >> >>> Thanks for that.... >>> >>> We want something managed and can be monitored ... >> >> There is no difference, or anything lost, in this arena, between an 'Active >> Solution' vs a "designed/yourself passive" solution. >> >>> modular in nature if possible. >> >> There is no "Canned solution" that can beat the a 'designed passive >> solution' in >> this area. >> >> >>> Thinking active as the "endpoints" (routers and/or switches) we do not >>> want to >>> utilize colored optics nor can we support it in some situations ... >>> so MUX for sure. >>> >> >> I think you are mis-understand how this actually works/gets implemented... >> All CWDM/DWDM solutions have a passive fiber Mux/Demux in the box, the only >> difference is what you see (out side the box) as optic options. >> >> e.g. each side just looks like this...... (passive mux/demux)---> {(Colored >> optics <--> SMF Optics)in a managed Media Converter} >> (One can use a managed modular media converter or a managed switch for >> this). >> >>> While we operate a WISP, this is part of our core network in one city >>> between two data centers so we want high quality >> >> There is nothing 'lost' or 'gained' in this area, only the perception of >> what is >> under the hood. >> >>> with a lower than we're used to price tag :) We would start with >>> 40x10G likely and see how it goes >> >> Be prepaid for some serious pain to the wallet for lots of marketing BS to >> justify that from those selling canned solutions. >> Also pay attention to the Cost and power range of the required optics, (do >> you >> power budget calcs due to insertion loss) >> >> My suggestion would be as follows:- >> For a moment, forget about which solution you are going to buy, take a bit of >> time to 'engineer' a passive solution, and just pencil in the figures, for >> all >> the components... >> >> Use this as a baseline to value the solution you are actually looking to >> buy, or >> negotiate for... >> >> (when I do such an exercise, 40c DWDM mux/demux units are running less than >> $2k >> each, low insertion loss units(3-4.5db), 100mhz channels, Colored optics >> (15db >> margin) are under $300 each. You can add 10g SFP+/SFP+ media converter for >> each >> side ($900each) or you can add your favorite brand of 10g 48 port switches to >> each side ...(running anything between $1000 to $1500 on the 2ndary markets). >> >> This would help in establish the value proposition and make you comfortable >> with >> what you end up going with. >> >> >>> >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz >>> Sent: August 14, 2016 11:16 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM Gear >>> >>> Technically speaking, there is no magic to CWDM or DWDM solution.... >>> You can go with a 'canned' solution from folks such as Ciena/Cisco/etc >>> etc etc or you can create your own with the required pieces, in the >>> simplest form all one needs is couple of passive Mux/Demux units, >>> colored optics and a Switch/Media Converters (ones that you can read the >>> light >>> levels from). >>> >>> Depending on length of the fiber, you may or may not need anything >>> more (such as regen units, amps etc). If you are going to design a >>> solution using passive Mux/Demux do pay attention to the insertion >>> loss figures on the different products. >>> >>> In my opinion, doing a CWDM/DWDM design calculations for a WiSP should >>> be fairly easy to understand. >>> >>> The benefit in designing your own solution, you gain a much better >>> understanding on what you can do and what you cannot do... (e.g. do >>> you know that you can potentially stack a DWDM solution right behind a >>> CWDM passive mux ? .... and you will end up with a much more flexible >>> solution, at a fraction of the cost of a comparable canned solution. >>> >>> We did a CWDM (8ch) passive solution, along with colored optics, 10g >>> Switches between 4 different Data Center, for under $12k a couple of years >>> back. >>> They way we optimized our design for initial cost, while maintaining >>> the ability to expand my adding another CWDM or DWDM mux in the future. >>> >>> (We went with gear from Fiberstore, we did consult them with our >>> solution, and they offered us Mux/DeMux units with even lower >>> insertion loss that those listed on their website for a slight >>> premium, which in our case was well worth >>> it) >>> >>> >>> Faisal Imtiaz >>> Snappy Internet & Telecom >>> 7266 SW 48 Street >>> Miami, FL 33155 >>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >>> >>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: [email protected] >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Justin Wilson" <[email protected]> >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 10:52:02 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM Gear >>> >>>> Are you looking for active or passive? >>>> >>>> We just replaced a failing Ciena Mux with an 18 channel passive mux >>>> for a data center client. Ours was CWDM, but they make a DWDM >>>> version. Total cost was under 5 grand, including spares. Ciena >>>> wanted 24k to update the service contract, update software, and >>>> troubleshoot an alarm state. >>>> >>>> Justin Wilson >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> --- >>>> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO >>>> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth >>>> >>>> http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - >>>> Distributed Fabric >>>> >>>>> On Aug 14, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have always used Cyan. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Paul Stewart >>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 7:30 AM >>>>> To: Animal Farm >>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] DWDM Gear >>>>> >>>>> For those folks doing DWDM on fiber, whats your preferred equipment and >>>>> why? >>>>> >>>>> We currently use BTI equipment which works extremely well but it’s >>>>> priced in the same ballpark as Ciena, Nortel, Cisco etc … quite >>>>> expensive to deploy. Hoping to find something more economical but >>>>> just as reliable? By reliable I mean that it’s deployed for years >>>>> without having to do anything service impacting to it. For this >>>>> particular deployment I’m thinking of, ROADM isn’t important >>>>> neither. Prefer active solution vs passive. CWDM would even be ok at >>>>> this >>>>> point to consider … >>>>> >>>>> Basically looking at ways to cut down on 10G fibers between two >>>>> physical locations (the fiber is leased) >>>>> >>>>> thanks, >> > >> Paul
