Might be worth a shot I guess. Depends how strong your 900 is coming
in.
Attenuation is attenuation though...whether it's LTE or something else.
If the path literally passes through a mile of trees then I'm surprised
even 900 works.
------ Original Message ------
From: "George Skorup" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: 9/24/2016 3:45:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers?
And what happens when the noise floor increases and the eNB can't hear
those shitty CPEs anymore? Nevermind, that question answered itself.
The boss keeps wanting to try an LTE sector at sites where we have a
mile or more deep trees (where we know 900 FSK barely works now, not
only due to power levels but noise floor too). My fear is that it
actually does "work" (meaning horrible mod levels) and he'll want to
run with it. So we'll get what, a couple Mbps out of a sector. Sounds a
lot like 900 FSK. Sounds a lot like 900 450i with a horrible noise
floor. So we gain nothing and spent a ton of money. Great idea. And we
won't end up getting all of the customers off of the 900 anyway, that
I'm sure.
On 9/24/2016 11:47 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
In Wimax it's 4x4....I'm pretty sure we'll have 4x4 in LTE as well,
but I think feature was released only a month or so ago. We have a
few places with split sectors, so we'll be able to compare to 2x2.
From what I understand, LTE's frame structure is such that it can hang
on to a crummy signal longer than Wimax. It was explained to me that
Wimax puts the synchronization data in the pre-amble which has to be
received on every subcarrier, whereas LTE has that data interspersed
among the subcarriers, so where your weak wimax CPE sometimes cuts in
an out, an LTE CPE in the same conditions can stay connected. It
also has lower mod levels that let it operate right down to the noise
floor. And at least in theory you'll get more throughput than you get
in the same conditions on Wimax.
I have the same reservations as you about the low mod levels thing.
Just because they work doesn't mean you want them. We're not
intentionally installing anything weaker than a -80 RSSI right now, so
we really ought to be ok on that front.
-Adam
------ Original Message ------
From: "George Skorup" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: 9/23/2016 11:23:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers?
Well, let me ask this. Are you doing 2x2 or 4x4 on the Telrad?
Obviously 4x4 would give a slight advantage.
My whole thing is, OK, it might work through a shit ton of trees.
Linked up and able to move some traffic is one thing. But a whole
bunch of low modulation customers on a sector is not worth the
investment. LTE, Wimax, 450i 900.. whatever it may be.
I know of a Telrad installation where they couldn't make it work.
Turned out to be interference. They had some guys from Israel come
"fix" it. I won't say any names, but I now see what they did to get
it working. It's in the 3.5 band.. because I can see them on my 450's
spectrum analyzer. From multiple sectors on multiple towers, so I
know what direction it's coming from. And I have no doubt they're
running it over powered.
Welp, we have a BaiCells demo kit, so we'll see what happens.
On 9/23/2016 9:52 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
We've had Telrad Compact 1000's for around 2.5 years, but they're
running Wimax firmware because we were replacing older 16e
installations. We have a number of sites now that have entirely
dual mode CPE so we're about to pull the trigger on LTE. We're
installing four LTE base stations next week on brand new sites, and
assuming those go well we'll upgrade some existing Wimax sites.
So yeah, within the next few weeks I'll know more. I'll definitely
report back.
It's interesting that you phrase it as "if it works at all." The
issue with Wimax has never been it "working", it's just that it
comes with a lot of quirks and it sucks at administration and
troubleshooting. I'm speaking of Wimax in general here, not Telrad
specifically....and I've used Wimax from three different vendors
now. I have no fear about LTE working. I am afraid it will turn
out to be cut from the same cloth as Wimax.
------ Original Message ------
From: "George Skorup" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: 9/23/2016 8:04:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers?
Aren't you doing Telrad? Please let us know if it works at all.
On 9/23/2016 4:05 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'll let you know in a few weeks.
------ Original Message ------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: 9/23/2016 5:01:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers?
I wonder what LTE would do with the same RSSI.
From:Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 2:46 PM
To:[email protected]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers?
Oh I also have somebody with a -88 who gets about half that.
900 was the last ditch effort for both of these.
With wimax from the same tower we got a big fat nothing at both
locations.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Adam Moffett" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: 9/23/2016 4:44:21 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers?
On the other end of the quality spectrum:
Link Test with Bridging
VCDownlinkUplinkAggregatePacket TransmitPacket
ReceiveActualActual196.07 Mbps1.32 Mbps7.39 Mbps, 474 pps821
(410 pps)128(64 pps)
That's a -85 on a 5mhz channel. On any wider channel I lose
this guy.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Dave" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: 9/23/2016 4:17:36 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz PMP450i :: Any real numbers?
This is from one of ours
Current Results StatusStats for LUID: 3 Test Duration: 5
Pkt Length: 1714 Test Direction Bi-Directional
RF Link Test
VCDownlinkUplinkAggregatePacket TransmitPacket
ReceiveActualActual1926.13 Mbps6.78 Mbps32.92 Mbps, 2367
pps2389 (477 pps)9450(1890 pps)
Efficiency
DownlinkUplinkEfficiencyFragments
countEfficiencyFragments
countActualExpectedActualExpected100%25525425525478%8412466231
Link Test ran on 03:59:48 01/09/2011 UTC
Currently transmitting at:VC 19 Rate 8X/8X MIMO-B
On 09/23/2016 03:12 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
We're looking at doing a forklift on a couple of 900 MHz FSK
APs. What are real world throughput numbers that any of you
pioneers are getting? We would probably want to do 10 MHz
channels at first, and I would hope that we could get > 15
Mbps in download, but maybe I'm being too conservative?
The places we are looking at do not have Smart Meter issues.
--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
--
