I can answer the question about XPIC that Mike Hammett asked. With XPIC
the opposite polarization signal is dynamically inverted, scaled and
essentially summed with the desired polarization to remove the effect of
SNR/MSE degradation. That is why we have two coax cables connecting the
radios, so they can both remove the opposite polarization signal.
It takes at least -36 dB MSE to achieve 1024 QAM with ACM on, and since
antenna crosspol isolation is typically -30 dB, it would be impossible to
run both polarizations on a single antenna with such high modulations on an
unfaded link without signal processing.
With XPIC we can have both polarizations running 1024 QAM error free and a
net MSE of better than -38 dB with one polarization faded by 18 dB relative
to the other on the air (H/V isolation of only 12 dB at the radio input)
Hope this answers the question.
Chris Gustaf
Trango Engineering
On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not 100% clear from your description, but the AF11x is
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/24/2016 4:28 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
>
> I will take a crack at it... just to make sure that My understanding is
> correct too.
>
> In licensed radio world, the default lingo is as follows:-
> A single channel is actually two channels, one channel is used to
> Transmit and the other channel is used to receive.
> and each of these channels pair can be either in V polarity or H
> polarity (but not mingled).
>
> XPIC is used to describe a radio where you can mount two radios together,
> one using the H polarity and the other using V polarity, but the same
> channel...
> But still only one channel (H + V) is used to transmit and the other
> channel is used to Receive. (Thus Full duplex)
>
> MIMO...., = One Channel, both H & V polarities are used, and either one
> can be used for Tx and Rx (thus half duplex)
>
> AF11x = Traditional Licensed radio... one channel/polarity for TX and
> one channel/polarity for RX
> Mimosa B11 = Disruptive... a very odd animal... can be configured as...
> Use one channel (both polarities)
> for TX and one channel (both polarities) for RX
> or ... Use Two Channels, both polarities in
> each channel, and use either one to TX & RX (more like a dual channel MIMO)
> AF5 = Uses one channel (both polarities) for Tx and one channel (both
> polarities) for RX
>
> AF24 = can be used as
> One Channel (Dual Polarities) for TX
> and one Channel (Dual Polarities) for RX
> or can use the same one channel (dual
> polarities) for Tx and Rx.
>
> Hope this is as clear as mud !
>
> :)
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"George Skorup" <geo...@cbcast.com> <geo...@cbcast.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, October 24, 2016 7:09:11 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system
>
> What's so much different between XPIC and MIMO? I'm asking because I guess
> I'm just ignorant. MIMO = single carrier (is OFDM implied?), dual streams?
> And XPIC = dual carriers (is single-carrier QAM per channel implied?) and
> independent streams that are aggregated in hardware, perhaps as simple as a
> LAG on the internal switch? Or does XPIC add some more magic?
>
> So then what is the UBNT AF11X considered? Or the AF5 and 24 for that
> matter since they're also capable of FDD.
>
> On 10/24/2016 5:23 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> Can a non-vendor tell me if at higher order modulations if there's
> limiting gain from co-channel XPIC? I assume it works to some degree
> because it's marketed (yes, I have a tub of salt over here), but at some
> point the modulations would be sensitive enough where the X-pol isolation
> isn't sufficient?
>
> Okay, a vendor can if they're more technical than salesy.
>
> I'm not meaning to imply John was salesy.
>
> ;-)
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"John Seaman" <j...@trangosys.com> <j...@trangosys.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, October 24, 2016 3:55:17 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system
>
> Hi Ken, the Lynx and Orion are largely identical. The biggest difference
> between the two is that the Orion supports XPIC where as the Lynx does not.
> Keep in mind that either model can be set up for 2+0, but only with the
> Orion can both radios operate on the same channel. Other than that, the
> Orion does offer higher TX power (for certain frequencies) compared to the
> Lynx. However with 6 GHz, the TX frequency for Lynx and Orion are the
> same. Orion also features SynchE/1588 functionality which is not found on
> the Lynx. Both models now support buffer size up to 8 MB.
>
> John Seaman | Sales | *Trango Systems, Inc. | *
> *+1-858-248-4006 *
> |
> www.trangosys.com <http://trangosys.com/>
> *[image: Trango Systems] <http://www.trangosys.com/>*
>
> *Innovating Microwave Backhaul**™*
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> Jeremy, I’m trying to remember, can you upgrade that Lynx to 2+0 with a
> license key as long as you don’t need XPIC? Trango doesn’t spell it out
> very well on their website, but it looks like the major differences between
> Lynx and Orion are buffer size, XPIC, and maybe the interface and powering
> options? So that you could still double the throughput as long as you can
> license a different frequency pair for the other polarization. And the
> issue of the wired interface speed.
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy
> *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2016 10:16 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system
>
> I don't know who has the biggest or best, but my 6GHz Trango Apex Lynx has
> been rock solid for going on four years now. It does 700Mbps FDX. I
> believe that the Trango Orion has XPIC up to 1.5Gbps in a 56Mhz channel.
>
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 7:41 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
> wrote:
>
> Why in the world would they buy Exalt?
>
> On Oct 21, 2016 8:10 PM, "Jaime Solorza" <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I thought Crisco bought out Exalt
>
> On Oct 21, 2016 5:10 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> I thought I got an ad recently from Exalt about a big sale through the end
> of the year on Extreme Air 6Hz. Oops, I just found the email, and it’s
> everything but 6 GHz. Not sure I’d buy Exalt anyway. Maybe someone else
> was having an overstock sale on 6 GHz?
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2016 5:50 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system
>
> First I have to find out if there are channels in this area.
> Then I have a passive repeater to deal with...
>
> Not a simple path to engineer.
>
> *From:* Daniel White
> *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2016 4:33 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system
>
> Well you can only use 60MHz channels max. That helps make it more
> competitive.
>
> 6GHz most likely precludes higher modulations… you just won’t have the
> link budget. Also depends if you’re going all outdoor or
> split-mount/all-indoor.
>
> I’d be shocked if there is a winner here – I’d go with the solution your
> most comfortable with.
>
> My guess is you will end up with Ceragon/Cambium or SIAE. DragonWave
> Harmony Advanced is certainly worth a look, although I’m not sure about
> 6GHz availability since it just started shipping.
>
> Chuck feel free to contact me offlist and we could look at some things.
>
> Daniel White
> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
> ConVergence Technologies
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2016 2:04 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Highest capacity 6 GHz system
>
> Who has the highest capacity 6 GHz systems these days?
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
