More likely heading down to Mexico to follow those Carrier jobs :P /s On Dec 21, 2016 9:56 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <[email protected]> wrote:
> oh well, it doesnt matter, in two years everybody will be too busy working > or taking vacations they can afford to bother with attention whoring. So > many jobs, we will be going down to mexico handing out citizenships > > On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Jeremy <[email protected]> wrote: > >> The last one was from "a letter to Bristol Palin", after a battle over >> displaying the ten commandments on public property. It's a bit of a >> different argument than the holiday displays, but the basis of the argument >> is the same. >> >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 7:54 PM, Jeremy <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> "*Argument One: Our Legal System is Based on the Ten Commandments* >>> >>> The legal system of the United States of America is based on the U.S. >>> Constitution, which includes its own Ten Commandments, if you will. It >>> starts off with ten rules which ensure the freedoms we have come to know >>> and love in this modern democracy. *The very first one*—in fact the >>> very first line of the Bill of Rights—says that government shouldn’t be in >>> the business of favoring one set of religious beliefs over another. >>> Religious liberty is something Americans have historically taken very >>> seriously, and we have always tried to remember that the only way one >>> person can be free to worship as she pleases is if everyone else is free to >>> worship as they please (or by extension free not to worship at all). >>> >>> *In short, it stipulates that one God cannot be placed above all the >>> others*. That’s bedrock for religious liberty in this country. No >>> favoritism. >>> >>> Now let’s look at the Ten Commandments of the Bible. That set of rules >>> *begins >>> with the exact opposite assertion*: That there is only one true >>> God—ostensibly that would be the God of the Hebrews, Yahweh—and all others >>> are illegitimate. “You shall have no other gods before me,” it says as >>> clear as day. >>> >>> So right out of the gate, we’ve got a fundamental conflict between these >>> two sets of rules. One is fundamentally pluralistic and “secular” in the >>> sense that it resolves to be nonsectarian, free from entanglement with any >>> one denominational belief set. The other is just the opposite–it prohibits >>> any other commitments and places this One True Faith above all over belief >>> systems. These two ideologies are diametrically opposed to each other. I >>> don’t see how anyone who’s thinking very hard about this can escape the >>> conclusion that you have to choose which of these two ideologies should >>> govern our local, state, and federal governments. >>> >>> What you do in your own houses of worship is another story. According >>> to the way our government is set up, in the private sphere an individual, a >>> family, or a religious community is free to worship (or not worship) as >>> they see fit. But in a nation founded on the principle of nonsectarian >>> pluralism, you simply cannot say that our legal system is based on the >>> dictates of one religion or another, least of all one that starts out the >>> way the Ten Commandments does. >>> >>> Incidentally I could go on and cover other things that don’t sit right >>> as well. For example, the notion of observing a Sabbath (that’s on >>> Saturdays, btw) isn’t exactly carried over into the New Testament, and >>> simply saying that you worship on Sundays isn’t the same thing, strictly >>> speaking. We don’t have laws about making graven images either (which is a >>> good thing considering this monument is literally a graven image), nor can >>> we possibly legislate coveting. >>> >>> *Come to think of it, can you imagine how the arch-capitalists among the >>> GOP would howl if we began to write laws about coveting?* Good >>> heavens. Are you really sure you want to say the Ten Commandments should >>> be the basis for American legal system? But I digress… >>> >>> Those things which you can extract from the Ten Commandments which made >>> their way into our legal code like lying, stealing, and murder predated the >>> Hebrew religion by many centuries and are nearly universal among belief >>> systems the world over. So it’s not really accurate to talk as if the Ten >>> Commandments are the sole proprietary basis for those things, either." >>> -Neil Potter >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Josh Reynolds <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Excellent points. >>>> >>>> On Dec 21, 2016 8:46 PM, "Jeremy" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Because it gives the appearance that government is favoring a specific >>>>> religion, in violation of the 14th amendment. It shows a lack of >>>>> separation of church and state. If we are going to allow christian >>>>> displays on public property then we also have to allow the Church of Satan >>>>> to erect Baphomet as well. The issue is that Satanic churches, Muslims, >>>>> and Secular belief systems are not given the same rights as Christians. >>>>> Just look at the Atheists and agnostics who have attempted to give the >>>>> opening invocations at our legislature meetings all over the country, and >>>>> the reactions that they got. They have been berated and disrespected. >>>>> This is the ground zero for the establishment of a government-favored >>>>> religion. >>>>> >>>>> "*The claim that America was founded as a “Christian nation” is at >>>>> best a gross over-simplification and at worst a myth fabricated in order >>>>> to >>>>> manipulate contemporary sensibilities*. Many of the prominent >>>>> “Founding Fathers,” were in fact not Christians in the sense that >>>>> contemporary evangelical, mainline Protestant, and Roman Catholic churches >>>>> understand the term. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, >>>>> Benjamin Franklin, and a host of others were Deists, or at least >>>>> influenced >>>>> by deist philosophy. They conceived of God as a divine watchmaker – this >>>>> impersonal, inaccessible deity set the universe in motion then sat back >>>>> and >>>>> watched history unfold completely independent of any transcendent >>>>> intervention, miracles, or divine-human relationships (Jefferson famously >>>>> edited the New Testament to remove all references to Jesus as a divine >>>>> miracle worker and render him merely a moral philosopher). The position >>>>> of >>>>> these Founding Fathers was far from any orthodox theology of divine >>>>> immanence. >>>>> >>>>> Further, the idea that the United States could be a “Christian nation” >>>>> is theologically problematic. The only “Christian nation” which the New >>>>> Testament envisions is the Kingdom of God, which transcends national, >>>>> cultural, and ethnic boundaries. Were the United States to be a >>>>> “Christian >>>>> nation,” she would have to do more than celebrate Christmas as a federal >>>>> holiday and display the Ten Commandments in her courthouses. If she were >>>>> held to the same standards to which the New Testament holds the Christian >>>>> community, the United States would have to embody Christian principles, >>>>> including the mandate to love one’s enemy, eschew power, put away the >>>>> sword, give freely without any expectation of repayment, and – because she >>>>> is very rich – sell all her material possessions, donate the proceeds to >>>>> the poor, then take up a cross of discipleship. The consumerism and >>>>> materialism which characterize so much of the American ethos – Jefferson’s >>>>> “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” was a modification of John >>>>> Locke’s “life, liberty, and the pursuit of property,” and indeed most >>>>> versions of the American Dream equate property with happiness – seem to be >>>>> at odds with most versions of core Christian values. In short, the United >>>>> States is not a “Christian nation,” and simply displaying representations >>>>> of the Ten Commandments in public locations does not change this reality." >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Jaime Solorza < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> yep but you will probably be yelling oh God when under dangerous or >>>>>> extremely pleasurable situation, >>>>>> Like Blood Sweat and Tears said, "I know there is no heaven, but I >>>>>> pray there is no Hell!" >>>>>> zaz...in your face >>>>>> >>>>>> Jaime Solorza >>>>>> Wireless Systems Architect >>>>>> 915-861-1390 <(915)%20861-1390> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 2:39 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> so, we use the Gregorian calendar which is named after a pope... I >>>>>>> wonder if I can skip court dates on the grounds it offends me >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Bill Prince <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Roadside displays should be free speech. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anything guvmint should be looked at suspiciously. Whether it is >>>>>>>> christian, jewish, muslim, pagan, or whatever. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 12:46 PM, Jay Weekley < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maybe. All those displays of Lady Justice at the court houses have >>>>>>>> to go. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chuck McCown wrote: >>>>>>>> > How about flowers or crosses on the side of the road where >>>>>>>> someone died? >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Do you tear down the pyramids or stone hinge? >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > -----Original Message----- From: Jay Weekley >>>>>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2016 1:42 PM >>>>>>>> > To: [email protected] >>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - trolling again >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Do you stop all religious displays or just Christian, Jewish or >>>>>>>> Muslim? >>>>>>>> > There are plenty of religious symbols from ancient religions all >>>>>>>> over >>>>>>>> > public property. I'd kind of like them removed as well. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Lewis Bergman wrote: >>>>>>>> >> I have a friend who is an atheist. He compares it to how I feel >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> >> any resources from my tax money going to abortion. Not sure I >>>>>>>> agree >>>>>>>> >> with the equivalency of the resources involved but I can see his >>>>>>>> >> point. If that is his only issue with my stance I would like to >>>>>>>> ask >>>>>>>> >> to stop all displays of Nativity Scenes in trade for not funding >>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>> >> abortions. Anyway, I thought his argument was fairly reasoned. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> I still ddon't understand why they care. It seems some are just >>>>>>>> >> purely to try and rub Christians nose in the fact they don't >>>>>>>> believe >>>>>>>> >> and think you are stupid for doing so. I view it like a lot of >>>>>>>> >> things. I don't care f you are gay or straight, married or just >>>>>>>> >> living with someone, Dem or Rep. As long as it doesn't affect me >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> >> simply don't give a shit. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 1:09 PM That One Guy /sarcasm >>>>>>>> >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> attention seeking behavior >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> most of these "athiests" "agnostics" "satanists" whatever >>>>>>>> "ist" >>>>>>>> >> they present as, couldnt even tell you the basic tenets of >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> >> "ist" and all they do is parrot simplistic talking points >>>>>>>> from the >>>>>>>> >> borg of nevergrewups ... "if you celebrate christmas, than a >>>>>>>> >> pagan" nonsense like that >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> society has slowly moved to the age of adulthood being a >>>>>>>> sliding >>>>>>>> >> scale, with fewer and fewer on the lower end every generation. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> the bulk of actual athiests, agnostics, satanists and other >>>>>>>> non >>>>>>>> >> attention whore ists could really give a shit less what >>>>>>>> others do >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> just remember, just because the loudmouth makes the most >>>>>>>> noise, it >>>>>>>> >> doesnt mean they represent the majority of their fellows. >>>>>>>> Also, >>>>>>>> >> remember, everyone is unique, just like everyone else. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Chuck McCown < >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> We have days on the calendar about people. >>>>>>>> >> Presidents day used to be Wash’n and Linc’n bdays. >>>>>>>> >> MLK day. >>>>>>>> >> Casmir Pulaski day. >>>>>>>> >> Columbus day. >>>>>>>> >> So, why are the atheists and others so unhappy about >>>>>>>> displays >>>>>>>> >> on public property about Jesus. >>>>>>>> >> I doubt anyone in Illinios would get unhappy if the local >>>>>>>> park >>>>>>>> >> had a Lincoln-Douglas plaque... actually Quincy had >>>>>>>> exactly >>>>>>>> >> that. >>>>>>>> >> Public displays frequently celebrate or inform about >>>>>>>> events in >>>>>>>> >> history. >>>>>>>> >> Our legal system has its basis in the bible, with some of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> >> legal doctrine based on the advise of Jesus. >>>>>>>> >> He lived. He taught. He gave advice. It affected >>>>>>>> history. >>>>>>>> >> Just like MLK. >>>>>>>> >> But on MLK day do the pentagram sculptures try to share >>>>>>>> space >>>>>>>> >> with MLK events? >>>>>>>> >> I don’t get why the Jesus events on public property are >>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>> >> an insult or affront to some people. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> -- If you only see yourself as part of the team but you >>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>> >> see >>>>>>>> >> your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> >> the team. >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> No virus found in this message. >>>>>>>> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> >>>>>>>> >> Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4739/13627 - Release >>>>>>>> Date: >>>>>>>> >> 12/21/16 >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > ----- >>>>>>>> > No virus found in this message. >>>>>>>> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>>>> > Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4739/13629 - Release Date: >>>>>>>> > 12/21/16 >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your >>>>>>> team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >> > > > -- > If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team > as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. >
