I thought it was "hire fast and fire faster"
------ Original Message ------
From: "Josh Luthman" <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: 4/24/2017 11:55:13 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
"First fast, hire slow" -Travis Johnson
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote:
At my peak, I had almost exactly 100 employees with half of them
installers. We had new guys ride along with the more seasoned
veterans for two weeks. If their trainer gave us a thumbs up, they
got a truck and were turned loose. If the trainer said thumbs down,
we gave them two more weeks and then they were let go if they did not
turn it around. You cannot let it drag on. Cut them lose and move
on. I never had regrets after firing anyone other than “should have
done that about 3 years ago”.
From:Ben Royer
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:17 AM
To:[email protected]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
It’s interesting reading responses, definitely two different cultures.
I was raised in the midst of both really, luckily I stuck to the
former, not the current, and therefor to me hustle makes sense. It’s
about having a sense of pride for yourself and your work. I can
definitely see the division amongst my team though, as I have young
and old, from all different backgrounds. I have a team of 6
installers, with an 7th that is my senior employee that I’ve recently
transitioned to ‘Lead Tech’. He’s a bit of a facilitator, someone I
can rely on to train new hires, audit installs, fix major issues, etc.
I’ve dealt with most issues mentioned, I’ve got the guys that fly
through jobs, can do 7 a day, but the quality lacks. Then I’ve got
the guys that might take 4 or 5 hours, but their installs are
impeccable. The main reason I started the ‘Lead Tech’ role, was to
find a happy medium to all the different methods, so that at the end
of the day, the customer is satisfied for many years to come. I think
that’s my major takeaway, is regardless of how long it takes, aside
from obvious economics, as long as the job is a quality job and the
customer is satisfied, it’s a job well done.
As far as training new hires. We have always done that through
osmosis. We spend the first few days in the classroom, giving a basic
orientation of who we are, and what are system is like. I give some
RF training, so they understand it’s not magic, it’s not a laser,
there is science behind the actual physical structure of RF. Then I
pair them up with a senior tech, now the Lead Tech, and send them on
their way. They spend the first 30-60 days of their 90 days with that
tech, learning efficient ways to install, and slowly taking on tasks
as the Lead tech assigns. Eventually, working into a role of doing
the whole job while the Lead follows. During this time frame we have
break out sessions as needed. Early on I do a break out session on
tower safety, and we do follow up meetings with them and the Lead tech
to see how they are progressing, and I tweak their training as needed
to address concerns or short comings. Usually, by 40 days or so, they
are ready to do jobs, but no later than 60 days, and then we turn them
lose to try it on their own. You will always have call ins for help,
expect that, and they will be slow on their own at first, but I find
the key is empowering them to make decisions. Most of my slower guys
are slow because they second, or triple, guess their work, instead of
just making a decision and moving on. I had one guy that was told to
test 5 different tours by dispatch to ‘find a signal’, he thought that
meant test all of them, even though he found a signal on the first one
he tested, so I had to explain the goal is to get a signal, period,
it’s inefficient to test all towers, Dispatch was just telling you
that you have 5 options.
If you have an employee that is just too slow and not catching on,
it’s time to let them go, I’ve had to do that also. Some people just
are not cut out for this type of work, as it is a unique job of
physical labor, mixed with a level of intelligence when it comes to
the technical side of things. Military guys are GREAT installer
hires, some of my best employees are former military. Everything can
be trained, but hiring someone that has the will power and
determination to work hard, and is respectful, is a huge advantage to
that process. I didn’t really see where you discussed the exact
findings that was causing your employee to be slow, but I’m sure once
you start to identify them, focusing some attention on those areas
will quickly teach you on if they can adapt, or need to be let go.
Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 <tel:(217)%20965-3699>www.royell.net
From:Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:31 AM
To:[email protected]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast. Do
things perfectly in the least amount of time possible. That means
hustle. Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck
and the house? There is absolutely no justification for not jogging
back and forth. Not saying to sprint or full on run. Just jog, show
some hustle. Economy of movements. That includes tool and supply
organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day.
If you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not
can you, probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing
instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
From:Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
To:[email protected]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing
leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay
with cause you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV
subcontractors do, as they get paid per room/job as well. It's
absolutely shit work that looks bad and often has problems you will
have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted
efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.
- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" <[email protected]> wrote:
Well then you would not be working for me. Or UPS or FedEX or Les
Schwab or Tunex or ......
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating
them like an adult. You own their work output when they are on the
clock and they need to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. I don’t pay
anyone to take their time.
From:Timothy Steele
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
To:[email protected]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start
looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you
told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then
go for it
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote:
You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they
decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be
rare.
I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have
to do at least 3 per day to keep their job. Once they are doing 3,
then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate.
Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to
house? Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give
them a bit of drill sergeant treatment.
I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to tell
them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want.
From:Brandon Yuchasz
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM
To:[email protected]
Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did
anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go
about trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster?
We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other
duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good
understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is
that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to
do.
I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out
where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site
surveys ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs
during the survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in
through wall here and terminate. You could see the tower from these
sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze.
I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I
considered a hard install. The second one easy. They took him over
10 hours not counting drive time.
I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the
customers permission. Both customers were happy with him and his
install and not a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I
took another installer with me and asked him to run the time frame
in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we
are both experienced.
So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and
then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through
the entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate.
Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer
questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the
new guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is
there to help him figure out a faster process and would be talking
with me after the install about ways to speed up the process so we
can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor
so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00
I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames
on installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we
knock out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in
3 hours max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I
left the new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard
install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to
check on the new guy. When I got there he was just about done with
the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not
throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past
hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was
going to be at 5 for sure. I stepped in did the paperwork and
quietly asked the other guy to pack up the truck some. This was
done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also
because we had a between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of
the day.
Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last
job.
I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a
lot 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he
had never seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable
on the back of the house. Take the little giant around to the deck
so I can access the roof. And it’s a tripod install. So when we
pull into the drive I point to the back of the house “that’s the
back” he says okay and I go to ring the doorbell and say hello. He
has the new guy with him so he told him to help with the ladder and
then instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I walked out
the ladder was up and the supervisor was at the top screwing down
the tripod. I grabbed the mast, mounted the antenna and put the
wireless unit on it to tune and scurried up the small ladder and up
the roof. Ill make this short. We hung the gear and tuned and marked
the tripod and I went down and he had just finished the RJ45. In
his defense he had put one on a 3 foot scrap piece that he had
confused with the rest of the wire in the box( I don’t know) so
this was his second end. Anyway we just ran the job and he stayed
out of the way. This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were
done in the truck heading home in just under two hours. But that was
two guys and we ran.
Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss
with this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I
always run to the truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This
guy defiantly does not run and nothing is done with any sense of
urgency. He is certainly smart and I hate to let him go because he
has other values but I don’t know what I can do to help him. He was
hired to take the load off of me and I realize at the beginning new
guys are work but its been over two months now he just recently took
on jobs alone and he is not taking the load off. He is adding to it.
Thoughts?
Is to wrong to say, your slow I don’t know why but I am going to
fire you if you don’t get fast. I wish I could tell you how to get
fast but Its lots of little things. Start with running everywhere
you go and see if that helps?
Seriously…. I do want to know from those of you that have hired
lots of guys what are your thoughts? Should I not be running one man
crews with the expectation of two installs in an 8 hour day with an
hour of drive time in there?
Thanks,
Brandon
