More of a comparison between a Yugo and a semi with triples. I am
hauling product. I want to be able to haul the most product and to
not have to build fiber. Or at least buy some time before I have to
build the fiber.
*From:* Rory Conaway
*Sent:* Saturday, October 28, 2017 10:34 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Considerations for upgrading passed SAF Lumina link
If I can get to work in a Yugo, why do I need to spend 5 times that
for the Corvette? I’m making the same amount of money when I get
there. The Corvette might get there 20% faster than the Yugo but….
Hence, the 80/20 problem. Then again, the job might not pan out in
which case, I might need a different vehicle. None of us know the
future. And to go back to the original point, if money was no object
and you wanted to use the spectrum most efficiently, why isn’t
everyone buy Cambium 820’s or Ceragons or whoever has 4096 QAM out for
every link?
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Saturday, October 28, 2017 9:24 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Considerations for upgrading passed SAF Lumina link
Rory has an excellent point. If the cheap radio get the revenue
flowing, you can go back a year or two later and put in the radio you
really wanted.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Rory Conaway" <[email protected]>
*To: *[email protected]
*Sent: *Saturday, October 28, 2017 11:09:44 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Considerations for upgrading passed SAF Lumina link
Why does that matter? It’s about the economics and the ROI. I’m in
business to make money, not to worry how efficiently I’m using my
spectrum. It’s the 80/20 problem. If I can achieve 80 percent of my
goal with 20% of the budget, then I’m not going to spend additional
funds until it produces a return on that investment. When I need to
be more efficient and it makes sense financially, then it will be
addressed. For example, we now need more bandwidth in the spectrum I
have with the B11’s, time to spend the additional capital. If the
financial return had not panned out, then I would have wasted $40K
dollars.
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Saturday, October 28, 2017 8:51 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Considerations for upgrading passed SAF Lumina link
The B11 will eat the most spectrum for the least throughput of any 11
GHz radios I have found.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 10/28/2017 8:31 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
That would be nice. Other than the AF11 and B11, I think most of
the licensed radios will get pretty similar capacity at any given
channel BW and modulation, so it pretty much just comes down to
what modulations and channel sizes they support. The B11 can get
particularly confusing being the only half-duplex radio out there,
and having several different ways it can be configured.
On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 10:14 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
I wish someone would make a chart showing the max of each radio
per channel BW size. The radio charts have way to many modulation
options. Like some kind of apples to apples comparisons for these
different radios per BW channel size.
*From:*Mathew Howard
*Sent:*Saturday, October 28, 2017 9:11 AM
*To:*af
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Considerations for upgrading passed SAF
Lumina link
Yeah, but to use the same channels that a SAF lumina is using, you
wouldn't be able to transmit on both channels... you'd have to use
FD mode, which if I remember right, means you'd also have to use a
fixed traffic split (although I may be wrong on that... ), so
you're going to get more like 300Mbps, at best. But since it's
MIMO, that still wouldn't be using the same channels anyway... if
the B11 could run in SISO mode, then you'd have to cut that in
half again.
But since Paul said there were sufficient channels available to
license, none of that is really relevant anyway.
If it were my link, I think I'd look into what it would take to
adapt the B11's to the existing dishes... if that could be done
fairly cheaply, then I would more than likely just go with the
B11's... especially if I already had them. If using B11's with
those dishes is going to be too costly or too much of a pain, then
I'd look at other options. If you don't have to replace, remount
and realign the dishes, you can spend a lot more on radios and
still come out ahead.
I probably wouldn't use AF11's on this link, because they need to
be able to do 1024qam to match the capacity of most 256qam radios,
and if the SAFs can't do 256qam on this link, it's a pretty safe
bet that an AF11 isn't going to be able to do 1024qam.
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:00 PM, Rory Conaway
<[email protected]> wrote:
Just ran a test we have on a 16 mile link and pulling
420-435Mbps on a 40MHz link.
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Rory
Conaway
*Sent:* Friday, October 27, 2017 8:07 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Considerations for upgrading passed SAF
Lumina link
A B11 can transmit on both channels simultaneously in the same
direction and it’s MIMO.
Rory
*From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Mathew
Howard
*Sent:* Friday, October 27, 2017 5:50 PM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Considerations for upgrading passed SAF
Lumina link
Well, no, a B11 wouldn't get more capacity using the same
channels... I'm pretty sure it would do quite a bit less,
actually. We're assuming he'd be able to license new channels.
On Oct 27, 2017 7:23 PM, "Eric Kuhnke" <[email protected]>
wrote:
If he wants to keep his existing FDD band plan license and
channel sizes, I don't see how a B11 would be any more
capacity at all, since it would be replacing a 256QAM radio
link with a 256QAM radio link. The B11 is only high capacity
when you give it huge channel sizes or let it do its special
weird pseudo-FDD band plan.
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Mathew Howard
<[email protected]> wrote:
B11's are going to get you the most capacity for the least
amount of money, but don't expect them to be as stable as
the SAF link. I've been pretty happy with our AF-11FX
link, but you're only going to get around double the
capacity you have now, and I don't know if there's
currently a way to do multiples on one dish... it might
make more sense to do like Lewis suggested and add a
second Lumina.
There are lots of options for higher capacity licensed
links, but they start to get pricey.
You could probably get Chuck to make you some adapters to
hook up just about anything to the SAF dishes.
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 6:51 AM, Paul McCall
<[email protected]> wrote:
We have a 4 year old Lumina link from our core, 12.9
miles, 11Ghz with 3ft dishes on each end, that
doesn’t have enough BW for us long term, as we are
going to do another hop from there (7.3 miles), then
FTTH.
I get around 270Mbit from it, and we already use
120Mit pretty consistently and if another tower OSPFs
to it, more than that. Sooo, I am looking for
alternatives. Its mainly one-way traffic of course,
so a solution that favored that would be acceptable.
Cost is a factor of course, as I also have a “parallel
path” a few miles south to do the same on very soon.
Something that could use the same dishes from the SAF
would be good also.
I have some undeployed Mimosa B11’s that we bought for
a project and are still waiting on some tower rights
to get settled. I could use those, or maybe AF-11X or
multiples thereof. I might as well plan for the
future since this is a “main artery” link. We have
sufficient 11 Ghz channels available to license.
Thoughts and suggestions are appreciated !
Paul
Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
<https://maps.google.com/?q=658+Old+Dixie+Highway%0D+Vero+Beach,+FL+32962%0D+772&entry=gmail&source=g>
Vero Beach, FL 32962
<https://maps.google.com/?q=658+Old+Dixie+Highway%0D+Vero+Beach,+FL+32962%0D+772&entry=gmail&source=g>
772-564-6800 <tel:%28772%29%20564-6800>
[email protected]
www.pdmnet.com <http://www.pdmnet.com>
www.floridabroadband.com <http://www.floridabroadband.com>
