Thanks, Vukoni. Sorry I wan't clear in my explanation of the Bambara reply, but it's simply "mba." SO: "I ni ce" "Mba!" (c is pronounced as the English ch).
I have to agree with you on the importance of knowing an African language for working there. At least some. One does miss a whole lot. On the inclusive and exclusive 2nd person plural, Fulfulde/Pulaar (the first African language I mastered) also has this feature. So: enen njaa (we [including the person spoken to] go / are going); mi'den njaa (we [excluding the person spoken to] go / are going). THe pronoun in most other times has a shorter form: en njehi (we went); min njehi (we went). Interestingly, Chinese also has this, though for most purposes "women" means we either inclusive or exclusive (like in English), but there's also an explicitly inclusive form, "zanmen," that is common only in the north around Beijing (from what I'm told). What you say about people thinking that their mother tongue has no grammar resonates with my experience. When I was learning Fulfulde in Mali (Peace Corps training), we were the first group to focus on that and not Bambara (which I learned more fully later). Our instructors, a fine group that I will never forget, still actually told us to not to worry about grammar because Fulfulde has no rules (!) - just listen and learn. This was nonsense, of course, but rather than argue, we began to try to figure out what rules we could. Later on we realized that Fulfulde was one of the most studied languages by linguists, but this underscored the tragedy of the situation: here were educated people, native speakers of the language, who had no clue about either about it having a grammar and rules (and very elegant ones at that) or about the fact that it had been so well researched. If people like that knew so little it is because of the way that the educational system systematically neglects the linguistic heritage of the people. By the way, are the 'd in a'divu and the 'b in 'baa implosive consonents? If so, these are present in Fulfulde and Hausa too (usually a hooed-d and a hooked-b are used to write them, but Yahoo doesn't support UTF-8), and the implosive b is used in Xhosa as well (though they have apparently dropped use of the hooked-b). All the best. Don Don Osborn Bisharat.net --- In [email protected], "Vukoni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Don, i ni mba. What you said about African languages vs. Western > languages really resonates. > > I came to the related conclusion, many years ago, that anybody > claiming to be studying anything African misses out a lot if s/he > doesn't try to learn the language of the group under study. > > I'm sure this is common sense, even to Biblical scholars who study > (long dead) ancient Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic to get a better sense > of the good book's meaning. Unfortunately, I have yet to see social > scientists (African and foreign) do something remotely commensurate as > a matter of course and urgency. > > Returning to the theme of difference, I have an interesting example in > Ma'di grammar, which has two forms of the first person plural. > > Example 1: conjugation of the verb yaka or to go. > > Maya -- I am going > Nyiya -- you are going > Koya -- he/she/it is going > > amavu, adivu -- we are going > anyivu -- you (pl) are going > kakivu -- they are going > > Example 2: the possessive pronoun > > maa -- my > nyaa -- your > anaa -- its, his, her > > ama, 'baa -- our > anya -- your (pl) > aiya -- their > > > Explanation: > "amavu" and "a'divu" (we are going) have distinct nuances. E.g., the > use of yaka (to go or going) in reference to persons A, B, and C. If > A, B, and C together, or one of the trio wish to convey to themselves > the sense that all three are going (somewhere), "a'divu" is used. > However, if A, B, or C, wishes to say that s/he and one other in the > group, excluding the third member, are going (somewhere), "amavu" is > used. > > The key here is that a'divu is used in an inclusive sense, while > "amavu" is used in an exclusive sense. In a similar vein, in the use > of our, i.e., "ama" and "'baa", "'baa" is used inclusively whereas > "ama" is used exclusively. Thus, we can demonstrate the uses of the > forms of the firs person plural posessibe pronoun by describing > something pertaining to a group of people (in one place or somehow > identifiable as a loosely aggregated entity), some of them Dutch and > others German. > > For a demonstration of the two uses, see below: > > Ama ti ni Dachi (Our language is Dutch) or Ama ti ni Jeremani (Our > language is German). But 'Baa dini ni Isilamu (Our religion is Islam) > if indeed everyone in the group (Dutch and German) is Muslim. > > > vukoni > > ps. Because Ma'di doesn't neatly fit into the categories of English or > Arabic grammar and is still largely taught by ear, many native > speakers (amazingly) believe that the language doesn't have a grammar. > Consequently, from that premise, they sadly if wrongly) conclude that > Ma'di is an inferior (and not different) language. > > ... ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/TpIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! 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