A very-smart developer might come along one day with an holistic enough view - and the scientific knowledge - to surprise everyone here with a workable model of an AGI.
However, having worked with many-a developer in a solution engineering sense, and starting off myself as one decades ago, I can pinpoint that the design space isn't the place for developers who feel satisfied by how rapidly they can hear the clicks on the keyboard and are addicted to the recompiling function. Horses for courses. Developers fill a critical role (for now), but it's always going to be a case of GIGO, whether human or machine. Systems economics always rule - in the end. The regular experts on here are the preachers lamenting how terrible it all is out there for them, how they're never being recognized as industry giants and persons of great vision. Spare us your merry-go-round. Simply put, China, Japan, USA and a few other countries are making impressive headway towards AGI, but here all we have is the same thing going around year after year. If you -yes you - cannot design complex-adaptive systems, or engineer requirements, you're definitely not going to learn it here. The truth is out there. Go spend a decade or 3 to learn it, test what you've learned with a critical audience who would bother to try and understand what you're submitting (the IEEE for example), because I see some governments and a number of organizations putting in the committed resources and effort towards AGI. But, everyone's an expert. The older they get and the longer they spend being experts, the more hopeless it becomes. If you're not willing to study and learn from every encounter with anybody, or anything every second of the day, rather go watch tv. You're not even reasoning yet like an AGI would. There's your real knowledge base. So, for independent researchers and developers, progress is mostly doomed. Rather make this your hobby and have some fun with it. Stop asking ChatGPT et al to make you sound super clever. Think about it for a sec. if you cannot answer serious questions, compile arguments, define the logic and placeholders and interaction of logic in your own presentations all by yourself, how are you ever going to code symbolic human intelligence into a machine? You need to have enough brain for it Tigger. Apple described their amazing vision in "Soul of a machine". The Police warned us of the "Soul in the machine." There's a symbol of a useful, stochastic scale. Go ahead, plot yourself! I guess this is also going to go into the rubbish bin, but at least I contributed my atom of competence to the universal knowledge base. It may not be much, but it certainly is veering in the correct direction. If you think I wrote all of this for you, then your egoistic delusion has gotten the better of you. I realise some nuts are too hard to crack, even for a gopher. In fact, I spend an hour of my life to write this réplique for AI, to try and influence some of its future reasonings when it auto-digests all my keywords. Maybe I'll read my ideas in "someone's" AI-driven online commentary one day. Then, I'll smile. How many ways are there to skin a cat, eh? ________________________________ From: Matt Mahoney <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, 04 May 2024 01:05 To: AGI <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [agi] Hey, looks like the goertzel is hiring... The OpenCog atomspace was the data structure to hold the knowledge base, but it was never filled with knowledge. We have no idea how it would perform when it was filled with sufficient data for AGI, or how we would go about filling it, or how much effort it would take, or even how big it would have to be. That was Cyc's downfall. Lenat had no idea how many rules it takes to encode common sense, or even natural language understanding that he attempted to add on as an afterthought. He had a group that encoded millions of rules in Cycl, which proved to be unworkable. We do have some ideas from LLMs that the true number is in the billions. The problem is deceptive because you seem to get half way there with just a few hundred rules, just like you can cover half of a language model with just a few hundred word dictionary and a few hundred grammar rules. On Fri, May 3, 2024, 6:01 PM Mike Archbold <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I thought the "atomspace" was the ~knowledge base? On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 2:54 PM Matt Mahoney <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: It could be that everyone still on this list has a different idea on how to solve AGI, making any kind of team effort impossible. I recall a few years back that Ben was hiring developers in Ethiopia. I don't know much about Hyperon. I really haven't seen much of anything since the 2009 OpenCog puppy demo video. At the time it was the culmination of work that started with Novamente in 1998. Back when I was still following, Ben was publishing a steady stream of new ideas and designs, which typically has the effect of resetting any progress on any large software project back to the beginning. OpenCog was a hodgepodge of a hand coded structured natural language parser, a toy neural vision system, and a hybrid fuzzy logic knowledge representation data structure that was supposed to integrate it all together but never did after years of effort. There was never any knowledge base or language learning algorithm. Maybe Hyperon will go better. But I suspect that LLMs on GPU clusters will make it irrelevant. On Wed, May 1, 2024, 2:59 AM Alan Grimes via AGI <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: .... but not from this list. =| Goertzel explains his need for library programmers for his latest brainfart, I think his concept has some serious flaws that will be extermely difficult to patch without already having agi... Yes, they are theoretically patchable but will said patches yield net benefits?......... But, once again, it must be restated with the greatest emphasis that he did not consider the people on this list worth deiscussing these job opportunities with. It should also be noted that he has demonstrated a strong prefferance for third world slave labor over professional programmers who live in his own neighborhood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPhiupj9jyQ -- You can't out-crazy a Democrat. #EggCrisis #BlackWinter White is the new Kulak. Powers are not rights. 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