On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Steve Richfield <[email protected]>wrote:
> Logan, > > You have missed the point. DrEliza.com has apparently saved lives doing > its NL dialog thing, yet its arcane roots (Eliza) will forever keep it from > serious consideration. > > How can something that lacks the capacity to be truly valuable ever be > recognized, when things that ARE valuable go widely unrecognized? > > At the very bottom is the basic fact that once you fully understand > something, it is no longer magical. People want magic in their AGIs. > Only some sort of PFM like neural networks have a chance of recognition, > and then only if they defy understanding, and then only if they are > valuable, and then only if ... > > Ahem, you show some ignorance in relation to the meaning of magic. You seem to believe "magic" is synonymous with the unknown, lol, well maybe to you and many as it is Occult (hidden knowledge). Though basically look up the etymology of magic quo late 14c., "art of influencing events and producing marvels using hidden natural forces," quo te http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=magic from ya So an AGI like GI-OS could teach the user how to perform magic. I use magic fairly regularly, so I could likely explain it to GI-OS and it could explain it to others. There are many schools of magic other than my own of course. Though obviously I'm somewhat biased to the way I do things... It's gotten me what I've wished for, so it works and that's enough for me. > Simplistic chess playing programs now challenge grand masters, yet these > are regarded as unintelligent BECAUSE we fully understand them. If they > were shrouded in smoke and mirrors, they might get more recognition. > > Continuing... > > On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Logan Streondj <[email protected]>wrote: > >> hmmm the deki.txt link doesn't work for me. >> >> Steve yes while that may be true, in other ways it's somewhat irrelevant >> if some people call BS, as if the AGI that is developed is truly useful >> then people will use it, or at the very least the developer will benefit >> from it. >> > > Show me an AI developer who has benefited from his developments. About the > only "benefit" is some recognition, and maybe a professorship. > What I meant by "benefit" is that it is a solution to a problem the developer was having. I.E. A lack of a uniform interface for doing everything on a computer. Similar to how GCC and Linux were developed, by people who lacked open source versions of something. So the developer benefits by having what it is they lacked earlier. > >> With personal success and sharing of benefits of the AGI the recognition >> should follow incrementally and potentially exponentially afterwards. >> > > This has never happened in the past, and I see no reason to expect that it > will ever happen in the future. > How about GCC and Linux? It has grown over time, though at start it was simply something that the developer lacked that they needed, which they shared for more benefit. Both R. Stallman and Linus Torvalds get loads of respect. > Note that Bill Gates and Paul Allen learned their skills on the > "mainframe" computer at Remote Time Sharing Corp, where I owned 11% of the > stock, was the VP of R&D, and wrote their FORTRAN/ALGOL/BASIC all rolled > into one compiler. I also placed the Teletype shown in pictures of them at > Lakeside School, showed them how to use it, and periodically visited them > to answer questions. Later, their whole concept with microprocessors was to > "do less with less". What they apparently did NOT realize was that the > "mainframe" computer they had used, an HP 2116 that served many schools in > Seattle, had about the speed and memory of a Commodore 64. Without > realizing it, they were actually doing less with more. You can imagine what > I got from producing SUCH a super duper "mainframe" computer system that > they actually *AVOIDED* paralleling its capabilities when microprocessors > came out. > > Wow, that's pretty awesome man, I respect you to, that's a rather epic history you got there. > The same fate awaits any future successful AGI developers. There is ALWAYS > someone like Bill Gates around to grab the money and fame, often while > turning out a lackluster product. Even the developer of DOS, the original > basis for Microsoft's billions, only got a few thousand dollars for his > code. Are you really prepared to compete with the Bill Gates of the world? > If not, then forget fortune and fame from writing better code. > > Steve > Compete? no, not really my thing. Money and fame are highly overrated. I want community, learning experiences, freedom, and longevity. It's why I'm making HSPL/GI-OS, in order to make it easier to have distributist neo-tribes with DNA (HSPL), nucleolus (GI-OS) and production facilities to create all or most of the products that we require for life, it would make money relatively useless. Humans can only deal with up to 200 people in social connections, so it's really pointless to know more than that i.e. fame. Besides fame nowadays doesn't (usually) mean you get more babies, so it's kinda pointless that way also. Having a stable family/community, starting relatively young seems the best route for it. Evolutionary Fitness, is all about how many of one's young reproduce as adults. I'd like to have high quality host bodies, in loving, supportive communities, that allow personal freedom and innovation, available for future reincarnations. So I'm working towards it, getting the pieces together bit by bit. ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
