> > This “rule” was used to express an opinion and with no backing arguments, > should be disregarded as irrelevant.
I'm pretty sure this was just a joke. No need to back it with arguments or determine its relevance. You are free to agree or disagree all you like. Nobody is trying to argue with you. Personally, I think there's a *grain *of truth to it, which is why it's funny to me. (A colleague implemented a relatively complex parameter file syntax, which ended up containing implicit function calls with a syntax surprisingly close to Lisp, so it hit close to home. lol) From the Wikipedia page: Both Greenspun's rule and Morris's corollary are examples of a > characteristic style of hacker > humor<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_humor> known > as "ha ha only > serious".[6]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun's_tenth_rule#cite_note-6> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 1:25 PM, David Clark <[email protected]>wrote: > I looked up the Wiki link and it said that Greenspun never had rule 1-9 > and came up with the name “the tenth rule” because it sounded impressive. > This “rule” was used to express an opinion and with no backing arguments, > should be disregarded as irrelevant.**** > > ** ** > > I presume that the “slow implementation of half of Common Lisp” is in > reference to Lisp using Polish Prefix Notation (PPN) and the fact that all > interpreters that compile to byte code also use PPN.**** > > ** ** > > **1. **Lisp was created in 1958 and was the second (Fortran was > first) higher level language invented for commercial computers. If Lisp > was so good then why do we have literally thousands of computer languages > and at the very least a few dozen that are currently used by thousands of > programmers?**** > > **2. **The instructions of all modern CPUs are in PPN. The only > other way they could be created is with a fixed size instruction set that > would be much less efficient. Is PPN Lisp or does Lisp also use PPN?**** > > **3. **The question is “is using PPN in a byte code interpreter > running a subset of Lisp”? My answer is obviously NO!**** > > **4. **Lisp was very slow for decades and I would argue that Lisp > is still slow except for the benchmarks that some implementers have > optimized to try to sell their wares. Benchmarks are an art rather than a > science.**** > > **5. **All interpreters aren’t “slow” and some like Java and C# > have included JIT compiling to machine code to make their speed approach > that of assembler.**** > > ** ** > > I have many complains about Lisp as a computer language but my biggest > complaint is that PPN is good for machines but lousy for humans. My > internal byte code is “surprise” PPN but I can’t imagine why anyone would > ever write code at that level when they can use a much more human friendly > source code. The answer is that they wouldn’t use that low level PPN as > source code and that more than anything else is why Lisp is essentially a > dead language. It is extremely difficult to see the shape of the nested > loops and control structures as they blend in to all the other function > calls. The ability to extend the language (the biggest reason people say > you should use Lisp) is very useful but has no direct connection to using > “S expressions” or PPN as source code.**** > > ** ** > > David**** > > ** ** > > PS I have included my comments on “rule 11” in another post.**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Juan Carlos Kuri Pinto [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* January-23-13 3:37 PM > *To:* AGI > *Subject:* [agi] Greenspun's tenth rule and eleventh rule ^_^**** > > ** ** > > Greenspun's tenth rule: Any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program > contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation > of half of Common Lisp.**** > > ** ** > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun's_tenth_rule**** > > ** ** > > Greenspun's eleventh rule: Any sufficiently parallel program written in a > non-purely functional programming language, like C, Assembler, Java, Lisp, > Scheme, and OCaml, contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, > slow implementation of half of Haskell.**** > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> [image: > Image removed by > sender.]<https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/1652298-7c98969f>| > Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription**** > > [image: Image removed by sender.] <http://www.listbox.com>**** > > ** ** > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/23050605-2da819ff> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
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