So the database of facts is just that.  It could be implemented as a frame 
system or semantic network(which is also a database of propositions). The 
database of facts doesn't necessarily have to take anyspecific form.  For the 
propositional representation I did not suggest any requirement for it to be 
booleanor logical propositions, or probabilistic propositions.  I just said a 
"propositional representation". To me that means entities are connected by 
relationships.  Nothing more.  Truth values, Belief values, or Probabilities 
may be added as the designer deems fit.
~PM

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 12:02:24 -0500Subject: Re: [agi] What is 
"understanding"?From: [email protected]: [email protected]
PM said:One suggestion is that you compile language into a "database of facts" 
using a propositional representation.In addition, you convert all sensory input 
to the AGI into the same propositional representation.Then you do inferencing 
within and generate behaviors from  the aforesaid representation.
If by "propositional representation", a logical statement with a Boolean 
true/false value, this will not be sufficient. The reason is, "facts" are never 
certain, and you never know in advance which ones will later prove wrong. Facts 
have associated confidence levels, based on supporting and conflicting 
evidence. Boolean truth values are an idealization of this, throwing away the 
ongoing accumulation of evidence and giving us only whether a particular 
proposition is currently accepted as reliable or not. The failure to recognize 
this has held back many seemingly promising AI projects in the past.
Rich said:So, what the heck can we compile NL into that would support 
prospective AGI operation?
This is what I've been describing to you. Semantic networks, properly 
structured, are up to the task. Any proposition from PM's "propositional 
representation" can be represented in a semantic network. The advantage that a 
semantic network then conveys is that the relationships between elements 
contained within a proposition can themselves be given confidence levels; the 
analysis of evidential support is no longer limited only to the proposition as 
a whole. For example, suppose I am looking at the proposition, ate(Billy, 
Nicky's_Popsicle). In a standard propositional representation like this, I 
can't analyze where the proposition is wrong, I just have to accept it is 
either right or wrong as a whole. If I use a semantic network-style 
representation, Billy<--SUBJECT--ate--OBJECT-->Nicky's_Popsicle, I now have two 
separate locations where I can attribute the failure of the proposition as a 
whole to be true: the SUBJECT and OBJECT links. Propositions come so close to 
doing this, but fail when we attempt to attribute failure to a particular 
substructure, because they aren't generalized enough to permit full analysis of 
the relationships of substructures to the parent structure.
Andi said:I would go with Todor on this one.  More specifically, it's very 
clear to me that language cannot be the bottom or basis of representation.  A 
language system has to be a piece on top of the basic system.  It may be the 
most important piece to us, because for interaction with us, and ability to use 
our body of written knowledge and contribute to it, a system will need to use 
language.  But, that need in no way implies that you could ever get any 
intelligent behavior if you just start at the level of language.  There are 
plenty of reasons to think otherwise.
The problem Steve and I both agree needs to be solved is: What, inside the 
mind, represents the meanings of natural language, and how do we go about 
designing an analogous structure programmatically? When you say someone 
understands a sentence, what happens in that person's mind? Is there not some 
sort of internal structure to which that sentence gets mapped through the act 
of understanding? In most AI/AGI projects to date, there have been three basic 
approaches: (1) use it directly in text form, (2) pull out what you need and 
stash it in "frames", (3) convert it to a parse tree. I think each of these is 
inadequate to the task. I think there is a more comprehensive data structure 
used in the human mind to represent what a sentence actually means, and this is 
the data structure, the lingua franca of the mind, on which the mind operates 
in the act of thinking. What would that data structure look like, were we to 
reverse engineer it to work on a computer? Language is useful towards 
accomplishing this task, not because it is already in the proper form, but 
because its structure necessarily closely mirrors that form, due to its purpose 
of communicating knowledge in that form from one mind to another. Once we have 
a proper understanding of how meaning is represented in the mind, it should be 
possible to begin mapping sensory information to that format, just as can be 
done with natural language.






                                          


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