Mike, Ben, et al, On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 12:25 PM, tintner michael <[email protected]>wrote:
> Steve: Ignore the hype and read the experiment descriptions VERY carefully > > Same as with AGI projects, huh? Sounds like good points. Do you dispute, > though, the regenerative powers of worms claimed (from a v.small fraction > of the orig. worm) ? - as opposed to the learning powers claimed? > Note that they did NOT test untrained worms. Maybe after literally losing their heads, they simply become too stupid to ignore open spaces? Maybe they become stupid enough to accept the first training, rather than wanting to see the same result several times before changing their behavior? There are MANY other explanations than the absurd conclusion they provided, which is quite typical of worm runners. This sort of "jumping to confusions" is EXACTLY what I was talking about. This report should be completely ignored, until some competent experimental controls are established. I strongly suspect that in the process, the theory of retained memory will completely evaporate, just as cellular memory evaporated in the 1970s when experimental controls were established. The BIG problem is that without deep knowledge of experimental design, guys (like you, Ben, etc.) may believe this sort of junk science and misdirect your own efforts, potentially wasting years of your lives. Steve ================ > On 14 July 2013 20:19, Steve Richfield <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hey y'all, >> >> The "worm runners" are well known to be a RICH source of such >> pseudoscience. Back in the 1970s they were feeding trained worms to other >> worms, and found worms were then MUCH easier to train. Then some real >> scientists took a look, and big surprise, found that improving their diet >> improved their ability to learn, and feeding them ANY good protein >> supplement, like wheat germ, did the same as feeding them trained worms. >> >> My observation: PRESUME poor science from these guys, until proven >> otherwise. Ignore the hype and read the experiment descriptions VERY >> carefully, and presume ordinary rather than extraordinary conclusions. >> >> Steve >> ================= >> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Juan Carlos Kuri Pinto < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Please, don't misinterpret this neuroscientific fact. The worm's body >>> does not have a copy of the brain memories. Once the head and the brain >>> regrow, such nervous system is easy to retrain and is supposed to >>> converge to the same kind of neural attractors that are produced by >>> learning the same abstract patterns of Reality. >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Indeed ... and while this empirical finding is very cool, that general >>>> point is not news to any biologist !! ... >>>> >>>> I am giving a brief "position paper" talk on this topic at AGI-13 in a >>>> couple weeks, for example... >>>> >>>> http://goertzel.org/agi-13/Body_mind_paper_v1.pdf >>>> >>>> ;) >>>> ben >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 1:14 AM, tintner michael < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> What it also tends to confirm is what we can already deduce from >>>>> evolution - that a brain is only the "headquarters" of cognitive >>>>> operations in a living agent, not the whole organization. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 14 July 2013 17:42, Matt Mahoney <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Which shows that memories can be stored in neurons outside the brain >>>>>> -- at least in planaria. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 7:23 AM, tintner michael < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/161092-decapitated-worms-can-regenerate-their-brains-and-the-memories-stored-inside >>>>>>> *AGI* | Archives<https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>>>>>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/3701026-786a0853> | >>>>>>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>>>>>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> -- Matt Mahoney, [email protected] >>>>>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>>>>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/6952829-59a2eca5> | >>>>>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>>>>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>>>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/212726-deec6279> | >>>>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>>>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ben Goertzel, PhD >>>> http://goertzel.org >>>> >>>> "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche >>>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/23601136-e0982844> | >>>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>>> >>> >>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10443978-6f4c28ac> | >>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a >> six hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back >> full employment. >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/6952829-59a2eca5> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10443978-6f4c28ac> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > -- Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a six hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back full employment. ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
