Russell, On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Russell Wallace <[email protected] > wrote:
> Okay, so would it be accurate to paraphrase you as suggesting an AGI MVP > should look like a big linear algebra solver? > More like - lots of little semi-linear algebra solvers, with appropriate "glue" of unknown sorts. That's an interesting idea if so, and possibly a promising one. The main > concern I'd have would be to make sure there's enough of a market for it, > i.e. enough problems people care about, that are naturally expressed in > that sort of form. > You question the market for AGIs? Heresy!!! No, I don't think that there is a market, or even that building AGIs might be a good idea. However, some of these "elements" might drop into various applications and greatly extend their capability. Steve ============== > On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 6:24 PM, Steve Richfield < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Russell, >> >> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 3:21 AM, Russell Wallace < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> If you are trying to design an AGI, what is your design going to be a >>> big version of? >>> >> >> Re-mentioning something from the past, but with new emphasis... >> >> When I was ~15 I discovered numerical series and their ability to predict >> future elements, which it appeared to me at that time to be what math was >> all about. I set about creating formulas that in effect merged several >> different series together and predicted future elements, in the sophomoric >> hope that the world was a LOT better organized than it is. This also >> paralleled an "intelligence" test that I had taken, which consisted of >> lists of numbers and the problem of guessing the next number. It looked to >> me at that time like "simple" (page-long) formulas might actually be >> judged as being "intelligent"!!! My effort failed for several reasons, some >> of which may be repairable, but the dream continues - with AGI being >> perhaps the ultimate extension. >> >> My primary discovery in this early failed effort was that linear algebra >> could in effect make decisions, and make "proportional decisions" akin to >> Bayesian math WITHOUT resorting to ANY conditional methodology!!! >> >> Of course, my early effort was only one-dimensional - lists of numbers as >> input, with the problem being to predict the next. However, I don't see any >> fundamental reason why the concept couldn't be extended to any number of >> dimensions. >> >> Imagine a system of elements (perhaps like biological neurons, but NOT >> like people now think biological neurons work) with the capability of >> predicting their inputs into the future (with obvious uncertainties and >> errors) via substantially linear, or at least continuous means. Some inputs >> would be "free" and reflect our intentions. Solving problems would consist >> of manipulating the free inputs until a desired result was achieved, >> perhaps using methods akin to genetic algorithms. >> >> In short, maybe our present "elements" of neurons, Bayesian logic, etc., >> are just too damn simple for the task at hand. >> >> OK, I have proposed above one prospective class of super-elements. Does >> anyone here have ideas for other super-elements? >> >> Steve >> ======================= >> >>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Steve Richfield < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> WAY back in the 1960s, a friend of mine, Carl Nicolai, now only known >>>> as the inventor of non-deterministic crypto, was promoting the use of >>>> pseudo-random carrier waves for spread spectrum communication - to go MUCH >>>> farther with less power. As his ideas started to catch on, one UCSF EE >>>> professor even put up a web site to debunk such craziness!!! >>>> >>>> Carl was SO disconnected from the mainstream that he couldn't get his >>>> articles published, and his patent promptly received a Secrecy Order. >>>> >>>> Of course, Carl's thoughts are now accepted as routine communications >>>> methods. >>>> >>>> Now, AGI seems to be caught in a similar sort of "trap" as RF >>>> communications once was, where present dogma and "leaders" are leading it >>>> to a dead end. >>>> >>>> Organizationally, AGI appears to be on a suicide mission, thinking it >>>> to be SO well targeted that it can enjoy the luxury of dismissing articles >>>> about radically different approaches as being "off topic" for conference >>>> presentations. Guys like Carl would NEVER have been acceptable to any >>>> conference. >>>> >>>> I think we have all hoped that guys like Jim and Tintner would see >>>> where the King has put his clothes. when we can all see quite clearly that >>>> the King is wearing them. This has led to an insane level of tolerance, >>>> because we all know that all it may take is one CAREFULLY calculated >>>> question to blow AGI wide open. Yet - apparently, the question remains >>>> unasked. >>>> >>>> For example, maybe we just haven't figured out yet where in an AGI to >>>> put the random number generator? We know that we NEED randomness in game >>>> theory and genetic algorithms, so I doubt that an AGI could be guilt >>>> without using a random number generator. >>>> >>>> OK, half a decade of discussions has failed to find the Holy Grail of >>>> AGI. Now, how about taking a step back and working on some good QUESTIONS? >>>> >>>> Any thoughts? >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/1658954-f53d1a3f> | >>>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>>> >>> >>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10443978-6f4c28ac> | >>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a >> six hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back >> full employment. >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/1658954-f53d1a3f> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10443978-6f4c28ac> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > -- Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a six hour workday. 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