Kevin's random babbling follows: Is there a working definition of what "complexity" exactly is? It seems to be quite subjective to me. But setting that aside for the moment...
It seems to me that complexity is a potential in the noumenal. It is realized when the noumenal manifests as the phenomenal, and particularly when phenomenal components have some combinatorial activity. For example, in Ben's Novamente, there are nodes and links and maps an actors. If I look at any one of these things individually, they seem to be rather simple, but when they are put together, a certain complexity emerges. So maybe its the organizing principles that are really complex? In this sense, it seems that Wolfram was on to something in his basic theory, although I doubt that Cellular Automata underlie all things ;) it seems that most things exhibit complexity to a certain degree as most "things" are a combination of other "things". The leaves on a tree are quite complex. If we break it down to molecules, they are also complex, then to atoms..then to particles, which seem a bit simpler, then to energy...then to? the noumenal? Which has the potential for all manner of complexity to arise..especially when humans get involved! :) Strictly speaking, the noumenal and the phenomenal cannot be separated or thought of distinctly IMO. From this viewpoint, complexity is merely apparent and not fundamentally "real complexity"... end of random babbling... Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Stabbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Kevin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [agi] more interesting stuff > Monday, February 24, 2003, 8:55:26 PM, Kevin wrote: > > K> Does this have AI implications?? > > K> The idea that there are large-scale trends in the evolution of > K> biological organisms, such as increasing complexity, is highly > K> controversial. But Peter Turney presents a simple computational > K> model showing that local adaptation to a dynamic, randomly changing > K> environment results in a global trend towards increasing > K> evolutionary versatility, which implies an accelerating > K> evolutionary pace, and that this trend can continue without bound > K> if there is sufficient ongoing change in the environment. > > K> http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=memelist.html?m=1%23550 > > <ramble> > I've been reading about information content, complexity (in the > mathematical/CS sense), randomness etc. quite a bit recently. > > One of the things that stands out is the idea (implicit, mostly) that > TANSTAAFL (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch) -- that you > cannot get more complexity from less (if you could, that would be a > valid compression, and therefore not as complex). > > So what I've been picturing is that organisms, in evolving, are > "absorbing" complexity from the Universe around them. And although I > used to think evolution always strives for more complexity, lately I > see this a bit differently... > > I suspect that in a sense, what is going on is a holographic process: > that if the whole shebang keeps going on, in the end every bit of > complexity is mirrored everywhere else -- each organism absorbing or > reflecting the complexity of their surroundings, which includes the > other organisms. A sort of Indra's Net of complexity. > > One thing that's interesting to ask is: is there some innate > complexity to begin with in, say, the natural number system -- such > that Stephen Wolfram's idea of generating true complexity from simple > cellular automata is possible? Or is the "generating force" in a > sense the energy that gets put into calculating the successive states? > Or, alternately, is Wolfram wrong, and does it truly take a "dynamic, > randomly changing environment" to give/borrow/share its complexity? > </ramble> > > -- > Cliff > > ------- > To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, > please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ------- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
