> If a 30x30 pixel grid is what you mean by content-richness, then I do > intend > for Novamente to deal with *this* kind of content-richness in the fairly > near future (how near depending on the achievement of relevant funding, > blah > blah blah). I believe that this level of richness doesn't require the > kind > of complex, specialized pre-filtering that human-eye-level richness > requires... > Urgh, the adjective applies to what goes on *inside*, not what comes in from the outside. If you just create 30x30 PixelNodes and let the generic processes do the rest, you don't have content-richness (or if you do, you have to learn *all* of it). Its a question of what kind of build-in support you have for stuff like the things I mentioned (resolving ambiguity, object completion, invariance under transformations, temporal patterns).. And yeah, I know novamente can recognize temoral patterns ;->...
Moshe > -- Ben > > > >> Hi, >> >> > In a private email, Moshe Looks added a common complaint that I'd >> > forgotten: >> > >> > ---- >> > >> > Complaint: Learning to be intelligent isn�t possible without building >> up >> > abstract cognitions hierarchically from a foundation of content-rich >> > sensory >> > and action streams. While Novamente can deal with content-rich >> sensory >> > and >> > action streams in principle, it�s not really centrally designed >> for this. >> > Work on AGI should begin with study of perception and action, >> and then one >> > should ask what sort of cognition naturally goes along with >> one�s working >> > perception and action modules � and the answer may or may not look >> like >> > Novamente. >> > >> Well, this is a bit of a straw-man. I guess its fairly close to the view >> of Patrick Winston and Project Genesis (http://genesis.csail.mit.edu/), >> but *I* was applying the words "content-rich" to modalities rather that >> sensory and action streams. For example, would you condsider a 30x30 >> binary pixel grid with a logo turtle "content-rich sensory and action >> streams"? Maybe, but I'm sure its not the first image that appears in >> the >> minds of the intrepid AGIers reading this ;-). Yet you can come up with >> all sorts of "rich" modality-specific problems, like resolving >> ambiguity, >> object completion, invariance under transformations, temporal patterns, >> etc, etc, etc... Clearly a buch of the brain's perception/action >> complexity is completely irrelevant in dealing with such a world, but >> not >> all of it! The Anwser still bascially works, I just wanted to get the >> question clear.. >> >> Moshe >> >> **************************** >> >> > Answer: Our intuition is that content-rich media aren�t critical, >> rather >> > that what�s important for learning to think is interaction with other >> > minds >> > in a shared perceptual environment in which you�re embodied. >> However, if >> > content-rich media are critical, Novamente can be used for rich >> > sensorimotor >> > processing perfectly well. While it�s always possible to code >> specialized >> > processing code for each type of sensor and actuator, we believe it�s >> > better >> > to begin with a common framework (such as BOA+PTL) and then >> specialize it >> > to >> > deal with the different modalities. This is conceptually >> analogous to the >> > way the brain uses the same basic neural mechanisms to deal with the >> > different human modalities, and also with cognition. >> > >> > ---- >> > >> >> Complaint: The design is too complicated, there are too many >> >> parts to coordinate, too many things that could go wrong >> >> >> >> Answer: Yes it IS complicated, and we wish it were simpler, but >> >> we haven�t found a simpler design that doesn�t seem patently >> >> unworkable. Note that the human brain is also mighty complicated >> >> � this may just be the nature of making general intelligence work >> >> with limited resources. >> >> >> >> Complaint: BOA and PTL are not enough, you need some kind of more >> >> fundamentally innovative, efficient, or (whatever) learning >> >> algorithm. This complaint never comes along with any suggestion >> >> regarding what this �mystery algorithm� might be, though � most >> >> often it is hypothesized that detailed understanding of the human >> >> brain will reveal it. >> >> >> >> Answer: This is possible, but it seems to us that a hybrid of BOA >> >> and PTL will be enough. The question is whether deeper >> >> integration of BOA and PTL than we�ve done now will allow BOA >> >> learning of reasonably large (500-1000 node) combinator trees. >> >> If so, then we almost surely don�t need any other learning >> >> algorithm, though other algorithms may be helpful. >> >> >> >> Complaint: You�re programming in too much stuff: you should be >> >> making more of a pure self-organizing learning system without so >> >> many in-built rules and heuristics >> >> >> >> Answer: Well, the human brain seems to have a lot of stuff >> >> programmed in, as well as a robust capability for self-organizing >> >> learning. Conceptually, we love the idea of a pure >> >> self-organizing learning system as much as anyone, but it doesn�t >> >> seem to be feasible given realistic time and processing power and >> >> memory constraints. >> >> >> >> Complaint: Programming explicit logical rules is just wrong; >> >> logic should occur as an emergent phenomenon from more >> >> fundamental subsymbolic dynamics >> >> >> >> Answer: Probabilistic logic is not necessarily symbolic; in the >> >> Novamente design we use PTL for both subsymbolic and symbolic >> >> learning, which we believe is a highly elegant approach. The >> >> differences between subsymbolic probabilistic logic and e.g. >> >> Hebbian learning are not really very great when you look at them >> >> mathematically rather than in terms of verbiage. The Novamente >> >> design is not tied to programming-in logical knowledge a la Cyc. >> >> It�s true that the PTL rules are programmed in (though in >> >> Novamente 2.0 they will be made adaptable), but this isn�t so >> >> different from the brain having particular kinds of long-term >> >> potentiation wired in, is it? >> > >> > >> > ------- >> > To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your >> > subscription, >> > please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > >> >> ------- >> To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate >> your subscription, >> please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > > > ------- > To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your > subscription, > please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ------- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
