Mike Tintner said in his 10/3/2007 9:38 PM post:


I DON'T THINK AGI - CORRECT ME - HAS SOLVED A SINGLE CREATIVE PROBLEM -
E.G. CREATIVITY - UNPROGRAMMED ADAPTIVITY - DRAWING ANALOGIES - VISUAL
OBJECT RECOGNITION - NLP - CONCEPTS -  CREATING AN EMOTIONAL SYSTEM -
GENERAL LEARNING - EMBODIED/ GROUNDED KNOWLEDGE - VISUAL/SENSORY
THINKING.- EVERY DIMENSION IN SHORT OF "IMAGINATION".



A lot of good thinking has gone into how to attack each of the problems
you listed above.  I am quite sure that if I spent less than a week doing
Google research on each such problem I could find at least twenty very
good article on how to attack each of them.   Yes, most of the approaches
don’t work very well yet, but they don’t have the benefit sufficiently
large integrated systems.



In AI more is more.  More knowledge provides more restraint, which leads
to faster and better solutions.  More knowledge provides more context
specific probabilities and models.  World knowledge helps solve the
problem of common sense.  Massive sensory and emotional labeling provide
grounding.  Massive associations provide meaning and thus appropriate
implication.  More computational power allows more alternatives to be
explored.  Moore is more.



In my mind the questions is not whether or not each of these problems can
be solved, it is how much time, hardware, and tweaking will be required to
perform them at a human level.  For example, having such a large system
learn how to run itself automatically is non-trivial because the size of
the problem space is very large. To get it all to work together well
automatically might requires some significant conceptual breakthroughs, it
will almost certainly requires some minor ones.  We won’t know until we
try.







To give you just one examples of some of the tremendously creative work
that has been done in one of the allegedly unsolved problems describe
above, read Doug Hofstadter’s work on Copycat to get a vision of how one
elegant system solves the problem of analogy in a clever toy domain in a
surprisingly creative way.  That basic approach, described at a very broad
level, could be mapped into a Novamente-like machine to draw analogizes
between virtually any types of patterns that shared similarities at some
level which seem worthy of note to the system in the current context.


Edward W. Porter
Porter & Associates
24 String Bridge S12
Exeter, NH 03833
(617) 494-1722
Fax (617) 494-1822
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:38 PM
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Subject: Re: [agi] breaking the small hardware mindset


Edward:The biggest brick wall is the small-hardware mindset that has been
absolutely necessary for decades to get anything actually accomplished on
the hardware of the day

Completely disagree. It's that purely numerical mindset about small/big
hardware that I see as so widespread and that shows merely intelligent
rather than creative thinking.  IQ which you mention is about intelligence
not creativity. It's narrow AI as opposed to AGI.

Somebody can no doubt give me the figures here - worms and bees and v.
simple animals are truly adaptive despite having extremely small brains.
(How many cells/ neurons ?)

I disagree also re how much has been done.  I don't think AGI - correct me
- has solved a single creative problem - e.g. creativity - unprogrammed
adaptivity - drawing analogies - visual object recognition - NLP -
concepts -  creating an emotional system - general learning - embodied/
grounded knowledge - visual/sensory thinking.- every dimension in short of
"imagination". (Yes, vast creativity has gone into narrow AI, but that's
different).  If you don't believe it takes major creativity (or "knock-out
ideas" pace Voss) , you don't solve creative problems.
  _____

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