John G. Rose wrote:
From: Charles D Hixson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The evidence in favor of an external god of any traditional form is,
frankly, a bit worse than unimpressive. It's lots worse. This doesn't
mean that gods don't exist, merely that they (probably) don't exist in
the hardware of the universe. I see them as a function of the software
of the entities that use language. Possibly they exist in a muted form
in most pack animals, or most animals that have protective adults when
they are infants.

To me it appears that people believe in gods for the same reasons that
they believe in telepathy. I.e., evidence back before they could speak
clearly indicated that the adults could transfer thoughts from one to
another. This shaped a basic layer of beliefs that was later buried
under later additions, but never refuted. When one learned language, one
learned how to transfer thoughts ... but it was never tied back into the
original belief, because what was learned didn't match closely enough to
the original model of what was happening. Analogously, when one is an
infant the adult that cares for one is seen as the all powerful
protector. Pieces of this image become detached memories within the
mind, and are not refuted when a more accurate and developed model of
the actual parents is created. These hidden memories are the basis
around which the idea of a god is created.

Naturally, this is just my model of what is happening. Other
possibilities exist. But if I am to consider them seriously, they need
to match the way the world operates as I understand it. They don't need
to predict the same mechanism, but they need to predict the same events.

E.g., I consider Big Bang cosmology a failed explanation. It's got too
many ad hoc pieces. But it successfully explains most things that are
observed, and is consistent with relativity and quantum theory.
(Naturally, as they were used in developing it...but nevertheless
important.) And relativity and quantum theory themselves are failures,
because both are needed to explain that which is observable, but they
contradict each other in certain details. But they are successful
failures! Similar commentary applies to string theory, but with
differences. (Too many ad hoc parameters!)

Any god that is proposed must be shown to be consistent with the
observed phenomena. The Deists managed to come up with one that would do
the job, but he never became very popular. Few others have even tried,
except with absurdly evident special pleading. Generally I'd be more
willing to accept "Chariots of the Gods" as a true account.

And as for moral principles... I've READ the Bible. The basic moral
principle that it pushes is "We are the chosen people. Kill the
stranger, steal his property, and enslave his servants!" It requires
selective reading to come up with anything else, though I admit that
other messages are also in there, if you read selectively. Especially
during the periods when the Jews were in one captivity or another.
(I.e., if you are weak, preach mercy, but if you are strong show none.)
During the later times the Jews were generally under the thumb of one
foreign power or another, so they started preaching mercy.


One of the things about gods is that they are representations for what the
believers don't know and understand. Gods change over time as our knowledge
changes over time. That is ONE of the properties of them. The move from
polytheistic to monotheistic beliefs is a way to centralize these unknowns
for efficiency.

You could build AGI and label the unknowns with gods. You honestly could.
Magic happens here and combinatorial explosion regions could be labeled as
gods. Most people on this email list would frown at doing that but I say it
is totally possible and might be a very extremely efficient way of
conquering certain cognitive engineering issues. And I'm sure some on this
list have already thought about doing that.

John

But the traditional gods didn't represent the unknowns, but rather the knowns. A sun god rose every day and set every night in a regular pattern. Other things which also happened in this same regular pattern were adjunct characteristics of the sun go. Or look at some of their names, carefully: Aphrodite, she who fucks. I.e., the characteristic of all Woman that is embodied in eros. (Usually the name isn't quite that blatant.)

Gods represent the regularities of nature, as embodied in our mental processes without the understanding of how those processes operated. (Once the processes started being understood, the gods became less significant.)

Sometimes there were chance associations...and these could lead to strange transformations of myth when things became more understood. In Sumeria the goddess of love was associated with (identified with) the evening star and the god of war was associated with (identified with) the morning star. When knowledge of astronomy advanced it was realized that those two were identical, and they ended up with Ishtar, the goddess of Love and War. Because lovers tend to meet in the early evening, and warriors tend to try to launch the attack as soon as they can see what's going on (to catch to victims by surprise). This is a small part of why I believe that human intelligence is largely a development from pattern matching.

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