As other people have pointed out in previous discussions, "symbols" in the broad sense also include mental images, actions, etc. There is no fundamental difference between a neuron group corresponding to a word, that another one corresponding to an image, as far as this discussion is concerned.
"Experience", in this context, is the I/O history of the system as a whole. Whether the system is conscious about all details of its experience doesn't matter --- that is a different topic. Pei On Feb 16, 2008 2:54 PM, Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Pei, > > First I carefully read your pdf which only talks re symbols: > "The meaning of a symbol is in its > relations with other symbols; the > truth-value of a statement indicates > how close it is to the evidence" > > Below you talk about more - images/motor sequences etc - well how do they > integrate with your pdf diagrams re concept processing/ semantics? That's > rather important to set out isn't it, if you're diagramming? > > And there seems to be a big hole in the centre of the below - and this is, I > think, > an important question : who or what is the part of the "software agent" > that does the "experience"-ing? Do you have a self - as we do - with a > unified sense of (and indeed location in) body and brain - that experiences > all its knowledge via emotions/ sensations? Whatever, you must define the > experiencing entity, and how it experiences, and you don't AFAICT, > > Let me try and make this exaggeratedly simple to focus on: > how is NARS or any current attempt at an AGI different, in the final > analysis, from an electronic row of dominoes, that a human programmer sets > off ? I am not aware - which of course may be my ignorance - of any current > system that is any different from that, however massively complicated the > row of dominoes - or that could be said to "experience" anything.. > > Pei: > > --- page 23 --- > > ... we do not mean that a word in a natural language gets its > meaning only by its relation with other words in the language, because human > experience is not limited to a language channel, but closely related to > sensation, perception, and action (Barsalou, 1999; Harnad, 1990). However, > the general principle is still applicable here, that is, a word gets its > meaning > by its experienced relations with the system's other experiential > components, > which may be words, perceptive images, motor sequences, and so on. In a > system > like this, the meaning of a word is much more complex than in a system > whose experience is limited to a language channel, but it does not rule out > the > latter case as a possible way for words (terms, symbols) to be meaningful. > For > example, a software agent can get all of its experience in this manner, and > we > cannot deny that it is genuine experience. > > --- page 24 --- > > The definition of meaning in NARS is similar to conceptual role semantics > and > semantic network (Harman, 1982; Kitchener, 1994; Quillian, 1968), where the > meaning of a concept (or word) is defined by the role it plays in a > conceptual > system (or a natural language). The difference between experience-grounded > semantics and those theories are: > • In NARS, the relations among terms are not definitional or linguistic, but > experienced relations that happen in the interaction between a system and > its environment, therefore they are dynamic and subjective in nature. > • In NARS, the relations between a term and others are concretely specified > by its extension and intension, consisting of inheritance relations, whose > meaning and properties are formally specified. > • In NARS, whenever a term is used, only part of its meaning is involved. > In other words, the "current meaning" of a term is not exactly its "general > meaning" in the long run. > > Pei > > On Feb 16, 2008 12:32 PM, Matt Mahoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > PeI:> To test the power of "visual reasoning", here is a rough visual > > > > explanation on two very different ways for "symbols" to get their > > > > meaning: > > > > > > > > http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/wang.semantics-figure.pdf > > > > > > > > > > Wow, I have to stop talking but this is really stimulating. Your > > > paper/illustrations are v. useful as far as they go, but they are almost > > > literally the tip of the iceberg. Your Experience-Grounded Semantics > > > represents a flower/pot as a tree or net of attached symbols > > > > > > "plant - containing - blossom - round" etc > > > > > > Now can we please have the VAST attached clusters/ trees of images of > > > flowers and pots that your brain has, and uses, to understand and > > > process > > > flowers/plants > > > > That's called a semantic network. Words are associated with other words > > that > > appear near it in a large corpus of text, for example: > > http://labs.google.com/sets?hl=en&q1=flower&q2=plant&q3=pot&q4=containing&q5=blossom&btn=Large+Set > > > > I agree that non symbolic (e.g. visual) processing is important for > > systems > > with non-symbolic I/O. > > > > > > -- Matt Mahoney, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > agi > > Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > > RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > > Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > http://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.6/1282 - Release Date: 2/15/2008 > 7:08 PM > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=95818715-a78a9b Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
