Well, if you are a computable system, and if by "think" you mean "represent accurately and internally" then you can only think that odd thought via being logically inconsistent... ;-)
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 11:23 PM, charles griffiths <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > I disagree, and believe that I can think X: "This is a thought (T) that is > way too complex for me to ever have." > > Obviously, I can't think T and then think X, but I might represent T as a > combination of myself plus a notebook or some other external media. Even if > I only observe part of T at once, I might appreciate that it is one thought > and believe (perhaps in error) that I could never think it. > > I might even observe T in action, if T is the result of billions of > measurements, comparisons and calculations in a computer program. > > Isn't it just like thinking "This is an image that is way too detailed for > me to ever see"? > > Charles Griffiths > > --- On *Tue, 10/21/08, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote: > > From: Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [agi] constructivist issues > To: [email protected] > Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 7:56 PM > > > I am a Peircean pragmatist ... > > I have no objection to using infinities in mathematics ... they can > certainly be quite useful. I'd rather use differential calculus to do > calculations, than do everything using finite differences. > > It's just that, from a science perspective, these mathematical infinities > have to be considered finite formal constructs ... they don't existP except > in this way ... > > I'm not going to claim the pragmatist perspective is the only subjectively > meaningful one. But so far as I can tell it's the only useful one for > science and engineering... > > To take a totally different angle, consider the thought X = "This is a > thought that is way too complex for me to ever have" > > Can I actually think X? > > Well, I can understand the *idea* of X. I can manipulate it symbolically > and formally. I can reason about it and empathize with it by analogy to "A > thought that is way too complex for my three-year-old past-self to have ever > had" , and so forth. > > But it seems I can't ever really think X, except by being logically > inconsistent within that same thought ... this is the Godel limitation > applied to my own mind... > > I don't want to diss the personal value of logically inconsistent > thoughts. But I doubt their scientific and engineering value. > > -- Ben G > > > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 10:43 PM, Abram Demski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> Ben, >> >> How accurate would it be to describe you as a finitist or >> ultrafinitist? I ask because your view about restricting quantifiers >> seems to reject even the infinities normally allowed by >> constructivists. >> >> --Abram >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> agi >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ >> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> > > > > -- > Ben Goertzel, PhD > CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC > Director of Research, SIAI > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must be first > overcome " - Dr Samuel Johnson > > > ------------------------------ > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > > > ------------------------------ > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must be first overcome " - Dr Samuel Johnson ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
